new red eye leaf frogs have red leg

[firebelliedtoadz]

Hi everyone! haven't been on in a while! What's new lets see... 2 fbt's, pacman frog,and 2 red eye leaf frogs!!!!!!

I got the relf's when petco had a 50% off sale. I know petco's bad but they were such a good deal! the employee said they has been there about a year and croak everytime she cleaned the enclosure. I figured they looked good and had been eating so I got them. they were active when I got them and was eating, and singing every night, but slowly have become less active, stopped eating, and their bellies are red. you can see all the broken blood vessels One is a lot more red than the other. I decided to soak them for 10 minutes in water and the less red one was awake trying to escape and turned dark green and the sicker one went back to sleep in the container.

I have them in a 10 gallon long side up, with paper towels on the bottom, and pothos growing in a 16 o.z whip topping container. I mist the enclosure 2-4 times a day depending. ( there new hope will be a large enclosure or a curio converted.)


Is there anything I can do to save them? They are beautiful and amazing, I really hope they don't end up dying. thank-you all for the help.

[michael novy]

Well I'm not a vet but I have used something called "fish flox" with great results. Crush up 1 tablet and disolve it in 20 oz. Of water. Spay the frogs down twice a day and put it in the water dish also. It goes bad quick so store the rest in the fridge for second treatment. sterilize tank every day of treatment. Treat for 7-10 days depending on the severity. You can order it on line if you cannot find it at the pet stores.

[Mentat]

Can you please post pics of your frogs and enclosure? Red Leg has been misidentified before and is usually brought on by stress or improper care that taxes the frogs immune system. Answering the below questions might help identify any problems. If Red Leg is the real problem some frogs respond to antibiotics like the Ciprofloxacin mentioned by Michael, and others get better just by correcting enclosure deficiencies and administering salt baths. If disease is allowed to progress into an advanced state, the bacterial attack or secondary attacks by other pathogens can quickly kill your frogs.

My recommendation would be to move the frogs to a hospital like set-up (damp unprinted paper towel for substrate, a synthetic plant and branch to hide, and a water dish) covered on all sides. Also, if really Red Leg; would completely sterilize the main enclosure before returning frogs there. Good luck !

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”
The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[flybyferns]

Well I'm not a vet but I have used something called with great results. Crush up 1 tablet and disolve it in 20 oz. Of water. Spay the frogs down twice a day and put it in the water dish also. It goes bad quick so store the rest in the fridge for second treatment. sterilize tank every day of treatment. Treat for 7-10 days depending on the severity. You can order it on line if you cannot find it at the pet stores.

Hi firebelliedtoadz,
You have advice here from an expert! Take heed
FYI - Ciprofloxacin is a .....a broad spectrum antibiotic -for the control of common bacterial infections.

Thanks very much Michael !
( Hope all is well ?)

I've used a method similar to this ( for the past 2 years) for cleaning the interior glass, water dishes, and feeder bowls, in my tree frog's tanks once a week.

Lynn

[flybyferns]

Well I'm not a vet but I have used something called "fish flox" with great results. Crush up 1 tablet and disolve it in 20 oz. Of water. Spay the frogs down twice a day and put it in the water dish also. It goes bad quick so store the rest in the fridge for second treatment. sterilize tank every day of treatment. Treat for 7-10 days depending on the severity. You can order it on line if you cannot find it at the pet stores.

Michael,
This post reminds me of that old EF Hutton commercial :
"When E. F. Hutton talks, people listen"

[firebelliedtoadz]

hi, thank you for all the replies. it may not be red leg just stress. i was just so stresses i jumped to conclusions. After their bath the less sick one looked a lot better, and ate some crickets that night. not sure about the other one. Frog #1 jumped from the plant and got a cricket and mouth full of peat moss! he did not enjoy that! I used just regular peat moss from the big bales. I use it in all my tarantula enclosures and it seems to work well. frog #1's belly was much less red. almost normal. the more severe frog #2 is unknown on belly color.

1. Size of enclosure 10 gallon tank vertical with pothos, potted in peatmoss in whip topping container
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences 2 relf
3. Humidity unknown.
4. Temperature 72-77 degrees
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish well water from my house. lots of minerals. always have hard water build up.
6. Materials used for substrate paper towels
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source crickets dubia roaches moths
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) have not done any. Which should I be doing?
10. Lighting what ever comes through the blinds
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure nothing
12. When is the last time he/she ate at leat one of the frogs ate a day ago.
13. Have you found poop lately yes
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) I will try to get onethis weekend
15. How old is the frog I would say they are around a year old probably more
16. How long have you owned him/her about a month
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred from petco
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats crickets roaches moths, anything i catch. I feed a couple to few times a week
19. How often the frog is handled never. except i did to get them into the soak container
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area low traffic
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) change paper towels every few days, and water all the time.

[REDEYEDWHISPER]

you can see all the broken blood vessels

This part has me worried. Have you taken photos to show? A red belly is common but broken blood vessels is VERY BAD!!!
Please get your frog tested for chytridiomycosis at Research Associates Laboratory Give them a call aquire a test swab...swab your frogs belly, legs and all lower extremeties. Mail the swab back and you will have results that day awaiting in your email. It only costs 18.00 / swab.
Your frogs may be trying to fight off more than one thing at a time causing some irregularities. As long as you dont stress your frogs you might be ok as far as preventing death. I have a very bad feeling about your case though. I would also listen to Mr. Noveys advice, he sounds legit. Just because symptoms go away doesnt mean your frog is well.

Also did you decomtaminate your pothos for pesticides and fertilizers which will slowly kill your frogs as well. If not...root your pothos....soak it in 2 parts bleach to 9 parts water then rinse really well and replant in organic soil...NO POOP of any sort..cow...chicken ext. ABG mix is great and highly recommended to replant in that. You may also grow pothos hydroponically. ABG (Atlantic Botanical Garden) MIX consists of 2 parts tree fern fiber, 1 part peat moss, 1 part sphagnum moss, 1 part charcoal, and 2 parts orchid bark. These ingredients you can purchase at your local nursery and recommend that verses purchasing it premixed from any vendor because you know EXACTLY what you put into it. =)

Vitamins and Calcium are also important for prolonging the life of your beloved frogs and help prevent MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease).
There are a few different varieties of calciums and vitamins on the market but I have had very good success with my red eyes on these products and you can purchase them at your local petco. Follow the EXACT procedures on the back of the bottle and you cant go wrong =) Also please make sure you get the Calcium and Vitamins WITH D3 and follow the expiration dates.

VITAMINS
CALCIUM

I am very happy to see you have a variety diet. =)

CHEERS

[REDEYEDWHISPER]

I hope this helps =) GOOD LUCK and I hope your frogs heal well. =)

[GrifTheGreat]

Sorry replace the 2 parts cocofiber with 1 part sphagnum moss.... cocofiber is too acidic and doesnt allow plants to prosper properly. A good way to look at it is... do you ever see anything grow under a coconut tree. =P

Moderator.... if you wouldnt mind helping me change that Id be greatly appreciated. =)

Moss is far more acidic than Coconut Fiber. I grow carnivorous plants and they die if planted with any coconut fiber. Peat, sand, and sphagnum are acidic soils especially when mixed. Coconut fiber is not devoid of minerals enough to sustain plants that need mineral poor acidic soil. Pathos will actually grow quite well in Coconut Fiber and thrive as long as there is a false bottom providing a drainage layer under the soil.

[REDEYEDWHISPER]

I guess pathos are very hardy... The exact mix I posted I have OVER PROSPERING Pothos..i have to clip it once a month =/ However Humidity is about 85-90 percent and I also have a drainage layer.

[flybyferns]

firebelliedtoadz,

1. Size of enclosure 10 gallon tank vertical with pothos, potted in peatmoss in whip topping container
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences 2 Red-Eyed Tree Frog
3. Humidity unknown. monitor ! 70-80%
4. Temperature 72-77 degrees day 78-80 night 71-75
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish well water from my house. lots of minerals. always have hard water build up.
If your well water is treated in ANY way ---you should still consider a water conditioner such as - Exo terra Aquatize
6. Materials used for substrate paper towels keep this nice and wet change at least 3 times a week
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. all need to be baked before use
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source crickets dubia roaches moths
this is great - be careful not to feed too large a feeder, especially if the enclosure has been on the cool side > a large feed ( one you might see them struggle with a bit > is difficult for them to digest
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) have not done any. Which should I be doing? ASAP - Repashy "Calcium Plus"
10. Lighting what ever comes through the blinds
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure nothing consider getting a small bulb of some kind to use during the day to pull the daytime temp up a bit
12. When is the last time he/she ate at leat one of the frogs ate a day ago. Great !!!!
13. Have you found poop lately yes
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) I will try to get onethis weekend
15. How old is the frog I would say they are around a year old probably more
16. How long have you owned him/her about a month
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred from petco frog's stress level is very high remember not to handle them them and provide a day/night schedule --- dark as possible at night
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats crickets roaches moths, anything i catch. I feed a couple to few times a week you can feed everyday- they will not overeat ---consider using a clear glass bowl for the feeders - red eyed tree frogs do very well with this method of feeding and it's a great way to monitor food intake and keep the calcium powder ON the feeder---clean the bowl daily
19. How often the frog is handled never. except i did to get them into the soak container good for you !
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area low traffic
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) change paper towels every few days, and water all the time.
sounds great

"soak it in 2 parts bleach to 9 parts water" --- IMO ,this is too strong ......a clean/new/ never used before five gallon bucket with water and 2 caps full of bleach will do the trick.... dip the item you're disinfecting and then rinse any item bleach was exposed to in VERY de-chlorinates water. Not rinsing enough can cause very serious issues for the frog's skin and respiratory tract. If you are disinfect ie a 10 gallon glass tank. Do it in the tub,shower, or driveway. Fill the tank all the way to the rim .....add the bleach ( 10 gallon .... maybe 3 cap fulls NO MORE) then rinse, rinse, rinse . Then fill with water and lots of
de-chlorinator and let it sit. After it dries stick you head ...if there is any doubt.....fill again and add
de-chlorinator.

Soil substrate is not necessary for red eyed tree frogs .
Keep the paper towel for now. It is a great way to monitor food intake and poop!
Glad to here you think they are better.
Keep me posted.
Lynn