Pakku not eating regularly, burried for a long time and looking thinner?! HELP!

[MaraBird]

Our Pacman, Pakku, whom we've had for about a month, month and a half, is acting pretty weird. He wasn't eating enough when we got him but now he's eating even less and he's looking thinner. he's staying buried for days and days at a time. He isn't using his water dish either. I'm fairly certain it was stress from being tong fed and changing enclosures from a large tank to the small one, but it's been a week and a half since he's been in the new enclosure and he's not coming out.



1. Size of enclosure - 5 gal
2. # of inhabitants - 1 pacman
3. Humidity - 80
4. Temperature 80-84
5. Water - type - Spring water.
6. Materials used for substrate - EcoEarth
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv. - Moistened Ecoearth with spring water, no current plants, water dish with smooth rock platform in the bottom to reduce dept for small Pacman.
8. Main food source - Crickets. I was trying out night crawlers but he wont eat them if you drop them in front of him. You could even drop them ON his face and we wouldn't eat them. You have to literally bump his nose a few times to get him to strike. I have stopped feeding them because he seemed like it was stressing him out and I don't want to dig him up to feed them with him acting the way he is.
9. Vitamins and calcium? Both. twice a week on different days.
10. Lighting - Natural - A bit on the darker side
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - Reptitherm UTI on the side of the tank. (acutally covers whole back of the tank and one side.
12. When is the last time he/she ate - MAYBE a couple of days ago. Some crickets are missing but I didn't see him eat anything.
13. Have you found poop lately - I haven't wanted to dig him up to look for it. He's a burrow pooper.
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) - Not wanting to dig him up right now.
15. How old is the frog - Young. He's fairly new, we've probably had him for about a month and has only exhibited these signs since I tried the night crawler feedings.
16. How long have you owned him/her - about a month
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - ?? Got him at Petco.
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats - He was eating about 3 large Crickets a day. Now, I'm not sure. I thinkif he's eaten at all it might be just that many in the whole week.
19. How often the frog is handled - Not at all. he's very skittish.
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - It is by the front do, but that's our lowest traffic area in the house. We only come in or out a max of 4 times a day.
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) - I've spot cleaned the enclosure. I mist it every two or three days to maintain humidity and his water is new either daily or ever other day. Water changes slowed down a bit because he hasn't been in the dish ONCE in a whole week.

[Flying Dutchman]

It's normal for this species to bury themselves, they only move when they see food. Keep changing the water every day, and make sure to mist every day. The earth must be moist. Have you ever checked on him during the night? You could use a special night bulb. A place near a door can be a drafty place!

[MaraBird]

His substrate is always moist but not sodden (doesn't drip when squeezed). And it's not drafty considering it's hot and moist outside (Florida). His UTH on the tank is plugged into a digital thermometer with a probe that turns it off when the tank reaches temp and it's been working wonderfully. I do check on him a night. That's when I was feeding him the nightcrawlers. But it doesn't seem like he's been coming up at night either. Not since the first night in the new tank.

Right now what I'm really worried about is the eating and him looking thinner.

[Mentat]

These days when read "Spring Water"...the warning chimes come on. Can you please check with the water source and find out what do they do to the spring water during processing? Do they filter it or add chlorine (chloramines) or other chemicals? Your frog could be suffering from Toxic Out Syndrome (TOS) if the spring water is treated or over filtered in any way that makes it unsafe for frogs .

[MaraBird]

I checked the jugs and it says 100% natural spring water. It does say there is a website that I can check the "water quality report." I checked the website and it says that it's microfiltered and sanitized with nothing more than UV light.

[Lija]

being through what i have been through for the last year id say that I don't trust spring water. period. and use and recommend for everybody to get water conditioner and use if for your tap water. this way you will know for sure it is safe.
your conditions are spot on, good job! however a few things pops out in mind here other then possibly spring water. how many hours of daylight a frog gets a day? do you lower temps for the night and feed him after lights are off and temps drop? how deep is a substrate and how big is a frog?
you will need to dig him out to take a pic to show us, we need to evaluate what shape the frog is in and what to do further. as well i would like to see pic of the enclosure too. and since you dig him out to do so, place him in warm bath for 20 min, treated tap water with a few drops of natural honey.

i didn't get a clear picture about feeding, please clarify - you got him a month ago, he was eating crickets no problem but then you tried top tong feed, he didn't like it and went under the ground, now he is not eating at all including crickets that he had no problems eating before. did i get it right?

[DVirginiana]

Try using conditioned tap water-- a bottle of Prime conditioner doesn't cost much and lasts for MONTHS, especially with only one animal. I lost a fish after only a month of living with untreated spring water (well situation) and believe it contributed in-part to some serious health issues with my pac too. She's doing great now, but it was pretty bad initially.

Also, how are you tong-feeding? When I first started my girl with tongs, I had to rub a worm between her lips for a minute before she'd get annoyed and take it. Sometimes they get scared without realizing it's food. I'd recommend trying treated tap water and also rubbing food against your frog's lips till he/she gets annoyed and bites a time or two (worms are less likely to scratch their skin when you rub their face IMO). They are often more eager to try tong-feeding once they realize there is food involved and not just metal "INSTRUMENTS OF DEATH" (as my python and White's tree frog like to call them).

But as others have said, plz post pics of your frog unburied. If he/she is toxing out, there are some quick/simple treatments you'd want to try. Like Lija said, soaking in luke-warm treated water with a couple drops of natural honey is great. It's like a natural laxative and encourages them to pee and pass any toxins that have built up.

[danfrog]

1. As always make sure you cover three sides of yohr frogs enclosure.
4. Aim for 82-84 degrees for day and 77-78 for night temps.
8. Keel trying nightcrawlers. If using crickets, it is extremely vital to gutload them. I use carrot, potato, lettuce, and apple grinds rinsed in dechlorinated water.
9. Calcium d3 twice a week. Vitamins once a week. Make sure there is a day in between eacg dusting.
15. How big is go your frog snout to vent?

[MaraBird]

well guys, when I got home yesterday Pakku was out of his burrow, sitting in the open and he was dead.
I called petco and they refunded my money to my petco card, which makes me believe this happens pretty often.

about the feeding: he was eating crickets, but everyone on here told me he wasn't eating enough. he was about the size of a large egg and he was eating a dozen crickets in a week. I was feeding the crickets that orange" Flukers" all in one and dusting calcium and vitamins, alternating. after I tried to feed night crawlers a couple days in a row he went under and stopped eating all together. I did have to rub the night crawlers on his face till he got mad enough to strike, but he was never eager about them.

I also picked a dependable source of spring water because out tap water is not always safe. we don't even drink it. the reports that come with our water have warnings with them about chemical and bacteria levels all the time. and some times we get urgent calls saying not to drink the water at all.
This has made me very wary of buying another small pacman from petco again. I think we are going to invest that 25 dollars they refunded me in to our cuban tree frog tank instead of buying a new one. they are thriving and our big girl is brave and pretty tame. I think I will hold.off.on.getting a pacman until I can get one from a reputable breeder. one that is already established.

[GrifTheGreat]

Im sorry for your loss. You did what you could.

[MaraBird]

Big thanks to everyone who tried to help.