Getting frustrated and worried

[ChrissyBee]

I got my baby pacman frog Alphie back in August. He ate well when I got him but wasn't very good at catching crickets. Unless they were dropped directly in front of his face, he didn't get them. Sometime he'd make a lunge as they walked away, but generally didn't even bother.

After about a month I moved him to a smaller enclosure in hopes that he'd catch the crickets faster, as they were sometimes in the tank with him for over 24 hours and not getting eaten. That seemed to help a little, but lately he's even worse.

I dropped some crickets in front of him tonight. He lunged for one, missed and now isn't bothering with them at all. One has literally been sitting in front of his face for the past 10 minutes and he hasn't budged.

I did manage to get him to eat a little nightcrawler last week but I've tried 5 or 6 times since and he shows no interest.

This is getting frustrating now, and worrying. He hasn't eaten more than one or two crickets this week. What should I do?

Oh and as for his tank...he's in a 5 gallon now with a heat pad on one end and a ceramic heater over the top. The daytime temp is around 27 C and at night it goes down to 24 C. The humidity never goes below 70%.

[GRABibus]

Hello,
answer to "Trouble in the enclosure" questionnary :

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

Also, post some pictures of the enclosure

[mpmackenna]

Is he visibly thinner? Frogs can sense the change in barometric pressure as winter approaches. Some of them eat significantly less for a while. As long as temp and humidity are good and the frog looks healthy I wouldn't get too concerned. Got any pics of your frog?


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[ChrissyBee]

Sorry for not posting this in the first place....

1. Size of enclosure 5 gallon glass tank, about 30 x 15 cm
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences one small pacman frog (about 5-6 cm body length)
3. Humidity -stable around 70%
4. Temperature - 22-24 C at night, 27-29 C in the day
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish -misted daily with dechlorinated tap water at room temp, a bowl of water is always available, large enough for him to soak in
6. Materials used for substrate - Ecoearth
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials - live pothos from a houseplant, no parasites
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source - 3-4 crickets every other day
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) - calcium dusting 2 times a week, vitimin dusting once
10. Lighting - natural, indirect sunlight
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - a heat pad on one side of the tank and a ceramic heater over the top (which turns off at night)
12. When is the last time he/she ate - several days ago
13. Have you found poop lately - yes, when I cleaned the tank up 2 days ago
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog - obtained as a baby in August
16. How long have you owned him/her - since August
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - unsure (bought at local pet shop)
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats - tried nightcrawler with little success
19. How often the frog is handled - every couple of weeks for cleaning
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - very low traffic
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) - water changed every second day. Poop removed as soon as possible, usually the same day.

[ChrissyBee]

Is he visibly thinner? Frogs can sense the change in barometric pressure as winter approaches. Some of them eat significantly less for a while. As long as temp and humidity are good and the frog looks healthy I wouldn't get too concerned. Got any pics of your frog?

I wondered about that. The room he's in has gotten colder and the days are getting shorter. I do maintain the tank at a constant healthy temperature but I'm sure he can sense the change. My hermit crab is the same, much less active in winter.

I don't have a recent photo of the frog, I'll get one in the next day or two. I handled him a few days ago and try not to disturb him too often.

[mpmackenna]

Don't give up on the tong feeding. If your frog doesn't go for it break for a month or so if necessary but keep coming back. The older ones seem to take to it and it is way more convenient in the long run.

Check this out if you haven't seen it.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QzaDYHwzcK4


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[ChrissyBee]

Thanks for the link. I was wondering about taking him out to feed - is that just way too stressful? I ask because when I moved him to the small tank I had him in a bucket and tossed a cricket in, he ate it right away! I wouldn't want to do it often but if he goes too long without eating could it be an option?

[mpmackenna]

Thanks for the link. I was wondering about taking him out to feed - is that just way too stressful? I ask because when I moved him to the small tank I had him in a bucket and tossed a cricket in, he ate it right away! I wouldn't want to do it often but if he goes too long without eating could it be an option?

If he seems to do well with it then it is definitely an option. Just try to keep him warm and make sure you keep it clean with a little dechlorinated tap in the bottom for humidity/hydration. No chemical residue of any sort on the container you use. You can clean with some diluted vinegar as long as you rinse thoroughly.
If seems to stress him out just put him back and lay off for a bit before trying it again.


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[ChrissyBee]

Ok I think I will try that tonight. I have a bucket with a little ecoearth in the bottom so I'll use that.

The tong video was really helpful too. I wasn't moving the food enough in front of him. I'll attempt some worm again this evening. Fingers crossed!

[Lija]

ok, first of all your temps are too low. 22-24C night =71-75F, day 27-29C is ok, so heat it more at night it should be around 25-26C. Big swing in temps day/night might force him to sense it is winter time.
next - cover 3 sides of the enclosure.

some frogs have harder time catching moving food, my male is one of those. they want to eat, can't get it easily, get discouraged, stop trying and are scared of tongs. so get a piece of nightcrawler and rub his lips a little, he may or may not eat it at first, but you gotta be persistent, he will get mad at some point, bite it and eat it but don't to annoy his too much right away, he might get scared. do it every day, at some point he will get tongs=food and will have no problems further on.

[ChrissyBee]

ok, first of all your temps are too low. 22-24C night =71-75F, day 27-29C is ok, so heat it more at night it should be around 25-26C. Big swing in temps day/night might force him to sense it is winter time.
next - cover 3 sides of the enclosure.

some frogs have harder time catching moving food, my male is one of those. they want to eat, can't get it easily, get discouraged, stop trying and are scared of tongs. so get a piece of nightcrawler and rub his lips a little, he may or may not eat it at first, but you gotta be persistent, he will get mad at some point, bite it and eat it but don't to annoy his too much right away, he might get scared. do it every day, at some point he will get tongs=food and will have no problems further on.

Thanks. Two sides of the enclosure are covered (hard to see int he pic) but I'll put something over another to see if it helps, and I'll check the temps again. I can leave the ceramic heater on all night as well, it will just mean less of a drop (if any) at night.

And yes, he has a hard time with moving food for sure - but at the same time needs movement. A live cricket can sit directly in front of his mouth, not moving and he wont' eat it. Then it will crawl, he may lunge and miss, and that's that. No eating.

He's not really afraid of the tongs, I often use them to push crickets toward him. I'll try a worm again. I have had them crawl over his mouth/face with no luck. It's frustrating but I'll keep at it.

[Lija]

no, don't let them crawl on his face, make him bite it, so just rub it on his lips, he'll learn

do you have a dimmer for your lamp? you can just dim it down a little for night.

[ChrissyBee]

No I've been looking locally for a thermostat with no luck, I'll have to order one. I know they work for heat pads, ceramic bulbs as well?

[Silkmoth]

Maybe he has eye problems? Ive had several blind mantids in the past. One had a small sliver of an eye she could see with so I would use tweezers to hold her food where she could see it. The other I had to touch his face or raptors (claws) and he would grab it.
How do his eyes look?

[Lija]

No I've been looking locally for a thermostat with no luck, I'll have to order one. I know they work for heat pads, ceramic bulbs as well?

home depot, 10$ lamp dimmer, it is not perfect, but sure will do. thermostat will work with anything, or you can get hydrotherm off ebay, its the cheapest way

[danfrog]

Haven't been following this thread but here is a good cheap lamp with a built in dimmer switch.

[mpmackenna]

I use these...

Lutron TT-300H-WH Electronics Plug-In Lamp Dimmer, White
http://amzn.com/B0000BYEF6


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[Lija]

I use these...

Lutron TT-300H-WH Electronics Plug-In Lamp Dimmer, White
Lutron TT-300H-WH Electronics Plug-In Lamp Dimmer, White - Amazon.com


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that is exactly what hope depot in Canada sells good stuff.

[Earth Eater]

I highly recommend this to anyone in need of a reliable thermostat:

Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Before I used the exact same dimmer Lija mentioned (and have used one other similar brand from home depot) but had to stop because they only work well in a relatively constant temperature home (they are on constantly so if it gets warmer in your house the frog gets too warm and if its colder your frog is too) and mine fluctuates during the day so it just was not worth the hassle. The new one that I got automatically shuts off at 2 degrees above the desired temperature and turns on at 2 degrees below (example I set my corn snakes to 86, goes up to 88, turns off, goes down to 84) it is +/- 2 degrees. It has a digital interface, a accurate probe, and it is very easy to set up. I bought mine directly from that link. Amazon Canada has it too for 5 dollars more. Costs more, but you will NEVER have to worry about sliding up and down the dimmer then looking at your thermometer and trying to keep it at the right temperature. I think its awesome!

Hope this helps

Bodhin

[ChrissyBee]

Great, thank you for those tips! I've been wondering about a thermostat option. I know I am really going to need one come winter as the room the amphibians are in can get cool. I have the heat in there (main house heat) set to a minimum of 21 C using a digital thermostat but I'm sure it is still going to fluctuate a bit.