UVA/UVB lights for tree frogs?

[Ben0918]

i have never gotten a straight answer for this but do you need it?

[carsona246]

I'm a relative newbie to frogs, but I'm fairly sure the answer is no, you do not need one for tree frogs. However I did purchase a heating lamp today, and was wondering if having uva/uvb will harm frogs. I realized the bulb I purchased emits uva.

[Lija]

i have never gotten a straight answer for this but do you need it?

Straight answer - yes you need it.

Not so straight answer would be - it depends on a frog species, some frogs require high percentage of UVB, some need less.

Which tree frog species are we talking about?

[Ben0918]

red eyes

[Lija]

I would use 2% UVB for red eyes.

[Heatheranne]

Yes, Lija is right. UVB light is not required for red eyed tree frogs if using a calcium supplement with vitamin D3, but the tropical 2.0 is the correct bulb. However, live plants will need UVB for growth. Provide plants that create shade in some areas so they may protect themselves from constant exposure, if they'd like.

Now, I have a 36" tall enclosure for mine so I actually use the 5.0 bulb for the plants, but I only plant the plants up to 24" so the frogs are not directly under the light, since they perch and sleep on the branches and leaves. Lights are off at bedtime when they are active and hopping and climbing about, so no worries about burns or too high of UV exposure by being too close to the bulbs. Works well and my plants love it .

Hope this answers your question . Let me know. Thanks!

[carsona246]

I hate to disagree with you guys, and maybe I'm totally lost on what UVB lighting actually is, but I'm fairly certain that plants do not require UVB light to grow. I've run a planted tank or two, and as long as the light is in the correct spectrum (around 65000) plants will grow just fine. Maybe those plant bulbs give off UVB radiation, and I'm totally unaware of it, but I'm fairly certain that if frogs have calcium supplement with vitamin D3 uva/uvb is not required for frogs or plants in a vivarium. I've heard that regular glass/acrylic actually blocks uva/b radiation, so even if plant bulbs did emit uvb radiation, it would not have reached the plants that I was growing, and mine always did well.
I did a bit of searching and there are people claiming uva/b radiation may potentially be harmful to frogs.
I personally have a UVB light in my tank now, and do not suspect that uvb lighting will be harmful at all, but I'm fairly certain it is not necessary.

[Lija]

People claim all sorts of things and can be arguing to death defending their opinion, that is why I go with scientific approach, whatever studies are done and researched conducted. If you are interested I will try to find some studies to post later, I can't use that tiny screen on iPhone lol

[Flying Dutchman]

I found an article that may be of some interest:

PLOS ONE: Ultraviolet Radiation Influences Perch Selection by a Neotropical Poison-Dart Frog

[carsona246]

Would love some scientific articles demonstrating the need for UVB light. However, I'm not sure if scientific articles are really necessary in this instance. If many people do not provide UVB light, and there are no negative signs of health in frogs kept without uvb light, then I would assume uvb light is not necessary. Not that I'm opposed to scientific articles, and if you have articles demonstrating evidence to the contrary I would be interested in seeing them.
Here's a quick thread I found where people claim to never use UVB lighting on their frogs. I think as long as D3 is provided there is no need for uva/b light.
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-lighting.html

Interesting article Dutchman, I'll have to read it properly when I get off work.

[Heatheranne]

This is becoming a great post and debate . We learn so much from data sharing and research .

We have to remember that in nature amphibians can control the amount of UV light they are exposed to by moving their locations. In a vivarium or riparium, they are trapped with what we provide. For this reason we should also provide shade and shelter from any UV lighting, whether A or B. Medically, too much of a good thing can also be bad....burns, cancers, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, alterations in kidney function due to dehyd/electrolyte imbalances, etc.

Here is some data on vivarium lighting provided by New England Herp. Just an explanation of the lights, their lumens and wattage and ranges of UVA and UVB lighting. (See below)

Most tropical plants like full spectrum lighting of around 6500-6700K. I use plants such as pothos, philodendrons and Chinese evergreens, which can tolerate less lighting, the higher humidities, and have broader leaves for tree frogs to perch on. I "feed" the plants with the frog poo/wastes by pushing the feces under the top layers of the ABG mix and coconut fiber substrate. I occasionally dump the frog water bowl water into the plant pots. There are springtails in the plant soil to help keep the wastes in balance and to keep away mold as the feces break down. Light, food/nitrogen, and water provide some of the essentials for the plants. Phosphorus is limited for the plants due to calcium exchange in the frogs. I provide shade for the frogs by limiting the height of the plant growth, and by using broader leafed plants. The combo works nicely. The lighting is only on one side of the tank. The plants extend to both sides of the tank. The light is somewhat blocked by the clear cellophane covering over the top of the tank. So, the amount of UV lighting able to pass through is not quantitative or qualitative with this set-up, unfortunately. It's a very simple set-up. Either way, it's enough to keep the plants growing well and the leaves grow large and nice and green , and the variegations in the evergreens are a lovely red/pink. Happy plants = happy frogs .

http://www.neherpetoculture.com/vivariumlighting101

I like this article. Let me know what you think.

Also, a few of the available reptile/amphibian bulbs have UVB and UVA lighting. Most often there is a chart on the back of the bulb packaging showing the levels and how much UV is emitted by height levels away from the bulb.

[Heatheranne]

A good person to ask about plant lighting is Deranged Chipmunk. He is our plant guru .

[Heatheranne]

Yes, it will. It will pass through the screen holes. Glass refracts, or bends, the light rays.

[carsona246]

Not super scientific but the bottom has a section about UV light passing through objects. Screen works just fine with UV light, but glass/acrylic does not let UVB pass.
UV Lighting for Reptiles: UVB in Nature - Solar Ultraviolet Light

Here's a quote on Plants/UVB from the article under tips and tricks you posted Heather.
"Vivarium plants do not need UVB. The only time UVB lighting is necessary in a vivarium is if you are housing an animal that would benefit from it."

[Heatheranne]

You are right! Plants need full spectrum lighting.

Upon further research, UV lighting is not what the plants require...it is the full spectrum of light they can use. The sun provides both.

I found this easy to understand article.
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=3155

You've got to love science .

[poison]

Though full spectum lighting may be best for plants I do wanna say based off personal experience, UVB lighting has made a difference in my cages when using live plants.

[Heatheranne]

My growth has significantly improved in both my gecko tank and my tree frog viv. The leaves grow in so fast and the leaves are growing larger. The UVB bulbs I use also have a UVA spectrum.

I apologize for the confusion, however. I just talked my buddy about lighting for plants. His always grow like crazy. He made it very simple..he says UVA light is visible light and is what plants can use to photosynthesis.

Here is another article.
http://www.biocontrols.com/aero65.htm#Development

[carsona246]

I've always been told to make sure the light I use is close to the 65000k, because that emits a larger amount of usable light for plants than other lighting options(fairly sure that was the lighting instructions for dummies version). Because I didn't really want to go into too much depth about researching light, I just went with that simplistic approach. I have never used any form of UVA/B lighting until recently and my plants have always done fairly well. Just wanted to specify that you do not need UVA lighting to keep plants in your tank, just a bulb close to 6500k.
A large part of plant growth is also providing enough nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, as well as micro-nutrients. Without sufficient nutrients, plants will not grow well regardless of lighting, at least with aquatic plants.
A quick google search about whether UVA adds extra benefits to plants led me to a growing sight for an illegal substance, but many users claimed that using UVA increased the potency of said substance. Maybe providing UVA add's something extra? I'll be interested to see if my plants do any better with UV lighting.