Tank Cycling

[elliotulysses]

Today is the day that I get my 30/40 gallon aquarium.
However, I know that involves tank cycling.
Before I ever owned an AFC I had no idea what tank cycling is!

I found this guide:
The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

Does anyone know if this is a good guide or if there is a better one?
I also plan on interrogating the shop owners of the pet store, where they hopefully sell unadulterated ammonia?
If not ACE hardware it is.

But it looks like I will have to move them (they are still quite small!) back to the 2.5 gallon aquarium until the cycling is complete.
Any tips on maintaining a good holding tank until the larger one is ready? There are two of them and while I am probably purchasing java moss, I am going to be putting the plants into the tank that is being cycled.
I am looking more for:

How many times should I do water changes? Per week? Per month?
My current plan is to change the water twice a week, at about 40% changes, then give it a nice scrub down with a toothbrush every week.

[mpmistr]

Without getting too complicated the easiest way to cycle a new tank is to use used filter media from an established tank to jump start the cycle. If you have that option available to 'seed' your new filter in such a way I would advise it. I've always done this with new tanks and never had a problem, bacteria multiplies quickly.

[carsona246]

I completely agree with Michael, if your tank filter in the 2.5 gallon has been cycled(most likely if you do not have ammonia) the quickest way to cycle your tank is to use the same filter on the new tank, and throw in the frogs. Honestly if they are currently in a 2.5 gallon aquarium, I would advise you to throw the frogs in the large tank regardless of whether your old filter has cycled or not.
I didn't want to read the article, so I'll just summarize cycling. It's the process of cultivating two types of bacteria that neutralize the chemicals your fish produce in the tank. One type of bacteria converts ammonia(most deadly) to nitrite(somewhat deadly). The other converts nitrite to nitrate(least deadly). Your filter cultivates the bacteria by providing an ideal place for it to live. Aquarium filters can have a number of different purposes, but we're currently only worried about bio filtration(cultivating bacteria in filter). Your filter probably has a porous pad that is called your bio media. This is where the bacteria lives. This is why it may be faster to just filter you new tank with your old filter. I recommend leaving the old filter in the new tank for at least 2 weeks before taking it out to "seed" your tank with beneficial bacteria.

If you are doing fishless cycling(nothing alive in tank, and only dosing ammonia) do not do a waterchange until you only have nitrates.
If you are cycling with fish do a waterchange every time ammonia is over 1 ppm, nitrite is over 3 ppm, and nitrate is over 40.
Once the tank is cycled I recommend doing a waterchange once a week, or whenever the nitrate reaches 40.
No need to scrub the tank with a toothbrush. The only thing that really matters for the frogs themselves is the water chemistry(ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Your tank could look disgusting(my tank has a ton of mulm on the bottom from plants) but have really good water quality. Make sure you have an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kit.
Also this may seem counter intuitive, but do not scrub the filter media, or clean it with chlorinated water. When I clean my filter, I do it in a bucket of dirty tank water after I've done a waterchange. The bacteria I was talking about earlier lives in your bio media in your filter, and you can kill it if you clean it with chlorinated water.
If you have any questions feel free to ask

[elliotulysses]

Basically, I don't really have anything seeded or know anyone locally that could help me out! However, I have found that the tetra whisper filter that I am looking at has a pocket for cultivating these bacteria.
Tetra Whisper PF10 Filtration System at PETCO

Would this eliminate the cycle completely, or just be a more prepared filter.

And sadly, before this I did not have my own filter for the 2.5 gallon. From what I read it seemed to be too small and I've heard of some bad stories of frogs getting stuck in currents or other terrible things.

[elliotulysses]

I wonder if the local pet store would help me with this. As I said, I am keeping some plants which should help the toxicity of the water.

Also how would one seed? Would I leave the old filter sitting in the water while the new filter cultivates bacteria?

[deranged chipmunk]

No filter will eliminate cycling, just hold more areas for bacteria to grow. I have used that filter for fbt's and it works well. But I removed all the filter media in favor of lava rock.

There are some new substrates out there that have nitrifying bacteria in them. And I think I remember hearing of people who have used stuff like safe start successfully. I have never used it, I'm a planted tank guy and always waited about 6 weeks of cycling before I added animals. Have me more time to play with plants lol

I can tell you that I have used Eco-complete in a freshwater shrimp tank successfully. Dumped it in, filled the tank, de-chlorinated and added shrimp right away. It has nitrifying bacteria suspended in liquid in the package of substrate. I did not have any deaths, but I may have just been lucky lol

[elliotulysses]

I recently got back from the pet store and was recommended to use some shrimp pellets and some old water from my frogs.
I also got products that I will probably post that are supposed to help with the nitrogen and bacteria.

Let me know if this food method has worked for anyone.

[elliotulysses]

So when I change the filter cartridges should I soak them in the dirty water or cycle all over again?

[carsona246]

I'm not sure what kind of filter you are using. I never change my filter media, because I use ceramic rings(and plants), which are easier to clean and last longer than sponges. For cleaning a sponge, just make sure you don't clean it in chlorinated water, because that will kill the beneficial bacteria.
I would not use seeded filter media from a petstore just because you run a huge risk of getting diseases from their fish tanks.
Frog pellets will work fine, in fact anything that decomposes will make ammonia. If you have frogs in the tank, you do not need to worry about adding ammonia.
I don't like any products that claim to cycle your tank for you, just because I've never had one work for me. I've used stability and a number of other products, and have never had any luck with any of them. If your frogs fit in a 2.5 gallon, they will be fine in a 30 gallon without it being cycled. If their current tank is not cycled, then it will be preferable in my opinion. Doing water changes will be easier on the smaller tank, but you will have to do less frequent water changes on a large tank. Just keep an eye on the ammonia level, and do a waterchange whenever the ammonia hits 1 ppm.

[elliotulysses]

Alright. I actually am using some brine shrimp pellets. I am using a tetra whisper ex 20 on a 20 gallon long tank.

Soon I shall have photos up of the big tank, the holding tank and some products I have bought.

Also perhaps photos of the treatment given to Carlos, who I feared had bloat

[elliotulysses]

We are doing a (so far) fishless cycle. However, I may add a few guppies to get the process going. Especially since I've heard it does nothing truly different and I have something to check on as it cycles.

Right now I have a bunch of food at the bottom of my tank, but I have heard it will cultivate mold. So I don't feel too bad with some brave hardy soldiers.

While guppies are my choice, anything else work? As in colonies of fish that don't carry bacteria like, goldfish.

Also if they survive maybe they will be a good frog treat.

And here is the current tank I am cycling
Instagram

[carsona246]

if you are dosing ammonia or adding food there is no reason to add anything alive. Adding guppies will just put guppies through a pretty brutal process.
Any fish you buy from a petstore has a potentiality for bringing disease into the tank. I'd quarantine anything for a month prior to adding them.
Do you have the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate test kit?
If the tank the frogs are currently in is uncycled, they would probably be better off in the new tank. More water volume means less fluctuations, and more time until you need to do a waterchange.

[elliotulysses]

I don't mind doing the slight water changes. They are not so much of a hassle as I have a pretty nice siphon and bucket, along with good supply of treated water. The pet store owner recommended guppies at first, but then said just to use food during the cycling process when he saw the look of horror on my girlfriend's face. However, I wanted to kind of keep them as a good indicator of when things are going right/wrong. I am concerned about the bacteria, but the guppies are supposed to be disease free/treated so they don't carry too much. If guppies are bad, I've seen people cycle with mollies?
I do have a complete testing strip, which shows nitrate levels, but it does not have ammonia. That is something I am going to have to set up.

And are you sure they are ok an an uncycled tank? I am more concerned about doing them harm than some little guppies/mollies!

Anyways, this is the current enclosure



For some reason my images are being very small. I will try to show you them in the tank, but I don't think you'd be able to see them too well .
Each are about 1.5" max at the moment.

[elliotulysses]

Tank being cycled, before I added the food.

Attachment 61607

[carsona246]

All fish kept at petstores need to be quarantined, regardless of the species(in my opinion). The petstore will most likely claim they are disease free, but if they have been in a tank with multiple other fish, they are probably carrying something. I honestly have no idea if frogs are susceptible to fish disease's, but I'm not a huge fan of using anything alive to cycle a tank.
Test strips are not very accurate, I recommend getting a drip ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit. They are more accurate, and you really should have an ammonia test kit. You will not be able to tell if the tank is ready for the frogs by watching the fish. You tell if the tank is ready by testing the water and making sure there is no ammonia and nitrite and less than 40 ppm's of nitrate.
There are pro's/con's of keeping your frogs in an uncycled small tank vs keeping them in your larger tank. If neither tank has been cycled then you just need to decide which is easiest for you. If you keep them in the small tank you can do multiple frequent waterchanges to keep ammonia down(once a day in that size tank), and it is easier to do a waterchange in a smaller tank. However, with a larger tank it will take more time to build up ammonia prior to needing a waterchange. You will be doing less frequent waterchanges(every other day or so) but the waterchanges will have to be larger to keep ammonia down. Regardless of which method you take, you will need a test kit to monitor how much ammonia is in either tank.
It can take up to 6 weeks to cycle a tank, so just because your frogs have been in the smaller tank does not mean it is cycled. I suspect the tank you are currently using is not cycled.

[elliotulysses]

All fish kept at petstores need to be quarantined, regardless of the species(in my opinion). The petstore will most likely claim they are disease free, but if they have been in a tank with multiple other fish, they are probably carrying something. I honestly have no idea if frogs are susceptible to fish disease's, but I'm not a huge fan of using anything alive to cycle a tank.
Test strips are not very accurate, I recommend getting a drip ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit. They are more accurate, and you really should have an ammonia test kit. You will not be able to tell if the tank is ready for the frogs by watching the fish. You tell if the tank is ready by testing the water and making sure there is no ammonia and nitrite and less than 40 ppm's of nitrate.
There are pro's/con's of keeping your frogs in an uncycled small tank vs keeping them in your larger tank. If neither tank has been cycled then you just need to decide which is easiest for you. If you keep them in the small tank you can do multiple frequent waterchanges to keep ammonia down(once a day in that size tank), and it is easier to do a waterchange in a smaller tank. However, with a larger tank it will take more time to build up ammonia prior to needing a waterchange. You will be doing less frequent waterchanges(every other day or so) but the waterchanges will have to be larger to keep ammonia down. Regardless of which method you take, you will need a test kit to monitor how much ammonia is in either tank.
It can take up to 6 weeks to cycle a tank, so just because your frogs have been in the smaller tank does not mean it is cycled. I suspect the tank you are currently using is not cycled.

No, the smaller one is not cycled either.
I had an earlier thread where I explained that I jumped into saving these little guys from the local dollar store. It was extremely sad, but based off of quick phone knowledge it seems like there is not much to do, but I quickly learned that was not quite the case!

For now I am fine doing the cycle changes. I also plan on getting a turkey baster and sucking up any debris at the bottom. The testing liquid shouldn't be a problem either. I will just have to look for it at the store.

Now, I do about 40% water changes every day or every other day. Would you do less or more in percentage?

However,

[elliotulysses]

However, I did keep them in there for a previous week or so. Not really cycled at all! I did add two different aquatic ferns and plan on getting some more before the -full- set up. I have heard that aquatic plants can be quite beneficial!

I would get a good snail too, only it seems that our "wild type" pattern frog, Carlos, seems to have a taste for escargot!

[elliotulysses]

if you are dosing ammonia or adding food there is no reason to add anything alive. Adding guppies will just put guppies through a pretty brutal process.
Any fish you buy from a petstore has a potentiality for bringing disease into the tank. I'd quarantine anything for a month prior to adding them.
Do you have the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate test kit?
If the tank the frogs are currently in is uncycled, they would probably be better off in the new tank. More water volume means less fluctuations, and more time until you need to do a waterchange.

I just have heard of horror stories of uncycled tanks resulting in an insane amount of tank death. I care for my little froglets quite a bit, so I am thinking off just doing the straight rotting food route and then at the end of the cycle doing a HUGE water change?

Also I have the tetra whisper ex20 filter. It's not ceramic, but it is a nice, quiet filter that doesn't seem to cause horrid currents. I also placed it near a back corner.

I also have heard of people not filtering their frogs water EVER and them lasting over 20 years! My guess is that these are pretty strong guys, but I still want to wait the full six weeks.

[elliotulysses]

However, I may end up moving them to the larger tank, as I can see that six weeks are quite a long time. Would moving them in the middle of the cycle be bad?

[elliotulysses]

All fish kept at petstores need to be quarantined, regardless of the species(in my opinion). The petstore will most likely claim they are disease free, but if they have been in a tank with multiple other fish, they are probably carrying something. I honestly have no idea if frogs are susceptible to fish disease's, but I'm not a huge fan of using anything alive to cycle a tank.
Test strips are not very accurate, I recommend getting a drip ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit. They are more accurate, and you really should have an ammonia test kit. You will not be able to tell if the tank is ready for the frogs by watching the fish. You tell if the tank is ready by testing the water and making sure there is no ammonia and nitrite and less than 40 ppm's of nitrate.
There are pro's/con's of keeping your frogs in an uncycled small tank vs keeping them in your larger tank. If neither tank has been cycled then you just need to decide which is easiest for you. If you keep them in the small tank you can do multiple frequent waterchanges to keep ammonia down(once a day in that size tank), and it is easier to do a waterchange in a smaller tank. However, with a larger tank it will take more time to build up ammonia prior to needing a waterchange. You will be doing less frequent waterchanges(every other day or so) but the waterchanges will have to be larger to keep ammonia down. Regardless of which method you take, you will need a test kit to monitor how much ammonia is in either tank.
It can take up to 6 weeks to cycle a tank, so just because your frogs have been in the smaller tank does not mean it is cycled. I suspect the tank you are currently using is not cycled.

Also, I was thinking kind of like a disposable/feeder fish. From what I've learned from some websites ( African Clawed Frog Housing and Feeding ), it seems that guppies aren't harmful for the frogs and they learn to eat them. While mine might be a little small for that, I would assume that they would keep the fish clean and free of disease.