? stress

[Lija]

Couldn't just let it go had to read it through, I had a bad feeling....


So just read your post.... Oh My God!.......... First thing you need to change is a vet and find a different one, the one who knows what they are talking about and know amphibian medicine. Ask for experience the vet has before you book an app. Just saying there should be exotic animal vet association or something like that in UK, you can contact them for advice on a vet.

next.
- Stop doing what you are doing and using what you are using, no nothing, extra ca included. Run to the pet store and get a dechlorinator ASAP, use it for your water. For absolutely everything that you do. Any would do, I like prime, you can find it in any fish section of the store, but any water conditioner would do. Just to let it sit like you do for a few days is not enough.
- change the substrate to exo earth, take moss and whatever else you have out.
- place a frog, in fact both of them in separate water baths with electrolyte solution, pedyalite if you have that one, or any other you have in available, it should be pediatric electrolyte solution without any flavours and colouring. Do these baths for a few days in a row. Keep ratio 1 part of solution, 10 parts of treated water. See how it'll go and please post an updates, so we can advise accordingly.
Your frog is toxic out and getting impacted on a regular basis due to substrate and used water. Thus bloating and seizures. The other one is affected too, but perhaps he is more tolerant.

Are your frogs cb or WC?

[Mentat]

As I read your frog's sad story saw a couple things that drew my attention and Lija confirmed them. You need to follow her advice and also correct temperature problems.

The days of chlorine gassing out to atmosphere are long gone since the use of stable chloramines. Treat all water with Seachem Prime or similar product. That includes the bath water, the water to mix with electrolyte (at 80F), and the water to mix with shredded coco (Plantation Soil or EcoEarth). The substrate should be damp so it clumps on fist but does not drip water out.

Also, bring the enclosure temperature to 85F during day with up to a 10F drop at night. Humidity of 50-65% is fine and ensure enclosure is well ventilated. Good luck and hope frog gets better soon .

[Dalmond]

Thanks for both your replies, what you've said adds up.... Firstly the vets we go to is a standard vet but one has a exotics specialism. There is a exotic vet surgery but its an hours drive away. The reason the vet rang the specialist on the night was because it was an emergency appointment and the specialist from my normal surgery had gone home. I get a little confused as some information on here can be contradictory, its said not to handle them yet people advise taking out their main enclosure to another to watch them feed or for a bath (like suggested above), where is the safe ground so to speak? In terms of temperature I'm having a difficult time maintaining or even getting the temperature high enough. I've got the heat pad and a compact top but I'm having to use a fan heater to heat the room up in turn the viv. Any suggestions on another way to make it warmer for them. My substrate is "Lucky reptile Humus brick" (Lucky Reptile Humus Brick from Evolution Reptiles - that's a link for you to see) Is this the same as "Eco earth" or "exo earth"? Its just a fine soil like stuff that I add water to and it expands, and like advised above its damp to form clumps if squeezed but not dripping. Finally after searching all morning I've found something that I think is what you mean as paediatric electrolyte solution. Its a powder, and I would make it up as normal and then dilute it further as per the instructions above. Its called "dioralyte" (heres a link - Dioralyte Information Leaflets | Dioralyte, I've got the green natural one at the top of the page). Is this Ok? When should I bath them and in what, I normally use a bowl but they just climb straight out. Oh and I believe they're CB. Thanks again, I look forward to you replies. And sorry its a block of text, my laptop doesn't seem to want to put in paragraph breaks. :/ Oh and he seems well again this morning, and he was calling all night and woke me up twice!!

[Mentat]

Hi Dalmond ! The substrate you linked should be OK if just shredded coco fibers. The Dioralite is not a pediatric baby formula and that makes it a different product. Have no idea if it will work the same or cause harm to frog. What I use is available at Walmart as Parent's Choice Pediatric Electrolyte. It has the exact same formula of Pedialyte unflavored and comes in a 1 litter clear bottle. Can keep opened bottle in refrigerator. You mix it per previous instructions and can use a small critter keeper plastic box that fits your frog or a plastic bowl with a holed up lid. Depth of solution should reach the frogs chin.

[Dalmond]

Its a genrealised electrolyte replacement powder. It contains Potassium chloride, glucose, disodium hydrogen citrate, silicon dioxide and saccharin sodium. Im struggling to find a UK retailer for the products you've mentioned. I can ship them in from American but at nearly £100 bulk plus a long delivery time.

[Lija]

Not sure about substrate, it says it I shredded coco fibre, but coconut husk is also shredded, perhaps if you can post a pic of it already expanded we can tell.
Or just get that one Zoo Med Eco Earth - Evolution Reptiles that is what you need.

Diuralite is fine, just make sure it is without flavours and colours, I think the one that says natural should be the one. No need to ship from anywhere, Pedyalite is available everywhere in North America, that is why we recommend it, but really all that is water and bunch of electrolytes. In fact Gatorade is exactly same thing, of course not usable for frogs because of additives it has.
Carlos has covered how to do the bath.

[Dalmond]

Ok so they shall bathe tonight!!! Im going to clean out the tank, and use de-chlorinated water to make up my substrate. Ill keep you posted. And the thought of my frogs bathing in Gatorade makes me smile, brightened up my day. Thanks again guys

[Lija]

Firstly the vets we go to is a standard vet but one has a exotics specialism. There is a exotic vet surgery but its an hours drive away. The reason the vet rang the specialist on the night was because it was an emergency appointment and the specialist from my normal surgery had gone home.

i would doubt that specialist ability to treat frogs too, given the hell road you had to go over such trivial problems. I bet they charged you well too. Any vet should know that husbandry is a cause of 90% of all problems in exotics. And any vet who understand what he is doing in general would check mark everything husbandry related first before he offer to do anything at all.

temperature I'm having a difficult time maintaining or even getting the temperature high enough. I've got the heat pad and a compact top but I'm having to use a fan heater to heat the room up in turn the viv. Any suggestions on another way to make it warmer for them.

what heat lamp are you using? For your rank heating infrared 75w should work to maintain temps.

I get a little confused as some information on here can be contradictory, its said not to handle them yet people advise taking out their main enclosure to another to watch them feed or for a bath (like suggested above), where is the safe ground so to speak

As a general rule frogs are don't touch, just look pets, however some would tolerate mild handling, whites are one of them. Just make sure you wash your hands before handling and rinse them in treated water before you touch a frog, alternatively just use disposable gloves. Frogs are very sensitive to everything around them, and oils from your skin are no good for them.

[makrau03]

You need to contact Dr. Frye. He has helped many of the frogs that I have rescued with illnesses. His email is: Dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com. Trust me, email him today. he will ship medication and anything else you need.

[Bolisnide]

You need to contact Dr. Frye. He has helped many of the frogs that I have rescued with illnesses. His email is: Dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com. Trust me, email him today. he will ship medication and anything else you need.

Dr. Frye can't ship meds outside the US. And pedialyte isn't available in the UK, that is why diurlyte was recommended.

[Dalmond]

So an update for you guys, the day after I bathed him in the electrolyte solution he became extremely ill during the day. He let out horrible screams and was seizing for a couple of minutes. He then went stiff and stopped breathing for five minutes. I thought he had died, again! Well we put him in some warm water and he slowly started to breath again, so we made an appointment at a specialist exotic vet over an hour away. We took him and the vet suspected he was septic due to his colouring and behaviour, possibly due to a parasitic infestation. He also suspected a calcium deficiency. He gave us some baytril to drop on his back daily, calcium injections to give him twice daily and another antibiotic to give by injection every other day. He seemed reasonable well again at the vet and very lively, however he was not right again the day after and had some more big seizures, almost continuously in the evening. So the day after I had to make the exceptionally hard decision to put him to sleep the day after, we decided that he wasn't getting any better and he appeared to be quite uncomfortable. He'd lost his smile, so although it was a very difficult decision to make we know now that he's happy and comfortable in froggy heaven. Were going to get Freddie tested for parasites, and the specialist is going to have Gonzo to do a post-mortem to see if he can find anything out to help other froggies in the future. Its odd not having him around, and Freddie appears to be missing him so we are going to get two more new babies in the next few days.

[makrau03]

By the way. Gatorade is a terrible idea, try Pedialyte, and only 1 to 10 ratio to de-chlorinated water.