ACF can't use back legs?

[mintyfresh]

Hey guys,

Last night I found my ACF upside-down on the bottom of his tank. I reached in and scooped him up immediately and brought him to the surface so he could breathe. I watched him for a while and it seemed like he could swim, but barely--he could only use his front legs. When I reached to put him in a new shallow tank so he wouldn't drown, he scrunched up (kind of like arching his back). I have been doing some research and I believe it could be an infection, but I don't know--I don't believe it's Red Leg, and he isn't bloated (he hasn't been eating lately). His skin looks rather normal, so I don't think it's a fungus. I put some Epsom salt in his water, and I will try to give him Epsom salt baths once a day (if indeed it is an infection).

Can anyone offer any tips? I don't want him to suffer.

[Jenste]

Any pictures you can post?

What is your substrate - any chance of impaction?

[mintyfresh]

I don't have any pics at the moment, but I will try to post them ASAP. My substrate is medium-large river rocks--I highly doubt he could have ingested any. I believe it was the water quality, as unfortunately I have neglected to keep up with cleaning--I feel terrible. It could also be a spinal cord injury--he has a tendency to swim around like crazy whenever I add water.

[Mentat]

Sorry your ACF is not doing well . Please answer these questions and we will try to pinpoint problem. Thank you !
“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”

The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.


1. Tank Size and volume of water in it (full, 1/2 filled, etc.)?

2. Number of inhabitants including all frogs and any fish?

3. Water source and any conditioner treatments?

4. Water Temperature and how is it heated (if so)?

5. Water chemistry levels: pH; Ammonia (NH3); Nitrites (NO2); Nitrates (NO3)? Note that if you do not have test kits, most aquariums/pet shops will do complimentary tests if you take a clean water sample.

6. Describe any filter system including model and media?[/COLOR]

7. Substrate type?

8. Tank set-up (plants (live or artificial), driftwood, hide outs and other decor? - How were things prepared prior to being put into the tank?

9. Main frog staple food and any treats? How often you feed?

10. CA, vitamins, and any other additives used (how often)?

11. Lighting set-up and hours it's used?

12. When is the last time frog ate?

13. Have you found poop lately?

14. A picture would be helpful including frog and tank (any including cell phone pics are fine).

15. How old is the frog?

16. How long have you owned him/her?

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred?

18. Any medications in the water (treatment dosis and for how long)?

19. Any salt in water (how much)?

20. Is the tank kept in a high or low traffic area?

21. Describe tank maintenance to include water changes, cleaning, media changes, etc.).


By Lynn(flybyferns), GrifTheGreat, and aquatic questions added by Carlos(Mentat)

[mintyfresh]

1. 10 gallon, full (usually 2-3 inches from top of water to screen top) unless I neglected to refill it.

2. 1 ACF, a goldfish, and several rosies (that he did not eat)

3. Normally tap water, usually treated with water cleanser--also, ideally, purified water (spring, never distilled)

4. Around 75F, heated by room temperature

5. I don't have any water testing kits, unfortunately, but I will definitely acquire some

6. No filter (stupidly) because I read it is like listening to a jackhammer all day (not really an aquarium expert, I had no idea there were quiet filters until now). I do, however, have an airstone.

7. Medium-large rocks

8. Two smooth clay pots on either side (hides), artificial duckweed floating on top, moss ball--I washed them (briefly) before adding them in hot water

9. Rosies, guppies, and sinking pellets--I feed whenever the food source runs out (e.g., rosies)

10. No vitamins, etc. (honestly never thought about vitamins with ACFs, even though I add them for my other land-dwelling amphibians)

11. Natural light, though never direct (normally rather shadowy in there), or incandescent whenever my room light is on. Natural light follows seasonal patterns.

12. No idea. I noticed he hadn't been eating lately, but I have no idea how long it has been--usually when I add water, as he is freaking out, he grabs a couple of fish (which is what he did last time I added water, about 2 days ago)

13. Nope. To be completely honest, I have no idea what ACF poop looks like.

14. I don't have any at the moment, but I will try to add some.

15. About 1 1/2 years.

16. Since he was about the size of a Dwarf frog.

17. Captive bred, I believe (bought him at a pet store)

18. I put a bit of Epsom salt in his water when I believed he had a bacterial infection, but as I'm not sure, I'm not going to continue at the moment.

19. None

20. Low traffic (my room; usually the only traffic is me)

21. This is where it gets sad. I can't remember when the last time I changed the water in his new tank was--or maybe the only time. I could make excuses, but really it comes down to me being negligent, and I feel terrible. It will never happen again if I can help it.

Anyway...that should give you an idea. It's either my fault (due to water quality), or a spinal cord injury, unless there are other possibilities. Can anyone offer any help? I feel terrible. I can't stand when anything suffers (I can hardly kill insects), and to know I caused it is hell.

He looks better now, but he is still scrunching up when I get near him. He also did not eat any of the pellets I put in. I removed them--I will not go through the dirty water issue again.

[Jenste]

OK, Unfortunately there are some big red flags here....

1. 10 gallon, full (usually 2-3 inches from top of water to screen top) unless I neglected to refill it.
You need to be filling it closer to the top - 10 gallon tanks are about 10" tall. Pretty much figure that every inch of unfilled tank space is 1 gallon less of water. So you are only having 7-8 inches of water before the amount displaced by the rock substrate.

2. 1 ACF, a goldfish, and several rosies (that he did not eat)
10 gallons of water is the minimum for ONE African Clawed Frog. Goldfish - fancies (the ones with the double tails) need a minimum of 20 gallons for the first goldfish. Commons/Comets (the ones with the single tail) need 4 foot minimum tanks for 2-3 goldfish at a minimum but are best suited for ponds. Rosie red minnows need larger tanks and neither the goldfish nor the minnows are appropriate food for the frog.

3. Normally tap water, usually treated with water cleanser--also, ideally, purified water (spring, never distilled)

4. Around 75F, heated by room temperature

5. I don't have any water testing kits, unfortunately, but I will definitely acquire some
Buy the liquid test kit, not the test strips. If you go to the pet store make sure they give you the actual numeric readings, don't just let them tell you "it's fine". Also don't buy any ammonia or pH neutralizers or quick fix solutions they will try and pawn off on you.

6. No filter (stupidly) because I read it is like listening to a jackhammer all day (not really an aquarium expert, I had no idea there were quiet filters until now). I do, however, have an airstone.
Overstocked, probably only 6-7 gallons of water maximum in the tank and unfiltered is a huge problem. You have nothing in the tank to break down the ammonia which is constantly being produced by the frogs and fish poo and pee and any uneaten food (there is always some and it decomposes rather quickly which produces ammonia). All the airstone is doing is keeping the water from stagnating and slightly aerating the water as the bubbles break the surface and cause water movement. The bubbles produced by the aerator do not make any impact while traveling in the water column.

7. Medium-large rocks.
The medium size can be problematic - if it is the size of the frogs head, it can be swallowed. Also the rocks are just trapping the waste and contributing to the poor water quality.

8. Two smooth clay pots on either side (hides), artificial duckweed floating on top, moss ball--I washed them (briefly) before adding them in hot water

9. Rosies, guppies, and sinking pellets--I feed whenever the food source runs out (e.g., rosie)
Unless you are raising your own feeders, you should not be feedling live fish. If you are buying them at the pet store you are probably buying the cheap penny or dime fish which unfortunately are treated little better than dirt because they bring in very little profit. They are expendable - there is no reason for the pet store to invest in their care when there is very little return. Unless the fish are quarantined for a minimum of 30 days and gutloaded, they do more harm than good. Minnows and goldfish also block the frog's ability to absorb the B-enzyme so they are actually doing harm rather than good as there is very little nutritional gain. You need to feed a quality pelleted food specifically for amphibians, not fish, and supplement with live earth worms.

10. No vitamins, etc. (honestly never thought about vitamins with ACFs, even though I add them for my other land-dwelling amphibians)
Doesn't really apply to ACF, this is a form used all over the forum and isn't generally applicable to every species of amphibian.

11. Natural light, though never direct (normally rather shadowy in there), or incandescent whenever my room light is on. Natural light follows seasonal patterns.

12. No idea. I noticed he hadn't been eating lately, but I have no idea how long it has been--usually when I add water, as he is freaking out, he grabs a couple of fish (which is what he did last time I added water, about 2 days ago)

13. Nope. To be completely honest, I have no idea what ACF poop looks like.

14. I don't have any at the moment, but I will try to add some.

15. About 1 1/2 years.

16. Since he was about the size of a Dwarf frog.

17. Captive bred, I believe (bought him at a pet store)

18. I put a bit of Epsom salt in his water when I believed he had a bacterial infection, but as I'm not sure, I'm not going to continue at the moment.
Don't add anything to his water unless you know what you are treating and how to treat it. Don't salt their water. Only use for baths and those are done for short periods of time and in a separate container.

19. None

20. Low traffic (my room; usually the only traffic is me)

21. This is where it gets sad. I can't remember when the last time I changed the water in his new tank was--or maybe the only time. I could make excuses, but really it comes down to me being negligent, and I feel terrible. It will never happen again if I can help it.
With no filter and the overstocked tank, you should be doing daily 100% water changes with conditioned water to battle the ammonia.

Anyway...that should give you an idea. It's either my fault (due to water quality), or a spinal cord injury, unless there are other possibilities. Can anyone offer any help? I feel terrible. I can't stand when anything suffers (I can hardly kill insects), and to know I caused it is hell.

He looks better now, but he is still scrunching up when I get near him. He also did not eat any of the pellets I put in. I removed them--I will not go through the dirty water issue again.

Your best bet for the frog's survival and thriving in the future, is to rehome the fish asap, change the diet, get a filter and cycle it (google - it is not at all what your pet store or even the instructions in the filter manual is going to tell you - remember, those are after profit and profit and fish/frog/animal survival often clash. )


Don't Panic! - - It seems like a lot and a LOT of us have been exactly where you have been. It is fixable but it is going to take a bit of work to get it there.

Also, live plants will greatly help once you have the tank stabilized.

[mintyfresh]

Thank you for your advice I feel so terrible for the way I've botched this, and I will be sure to never do so in the future. I will take all of your advice for the future to the best of my abilities.

However, is there anything I should do at the moment? He is in a small tank with water high enough to comfortably cover him but not enough so he could drown. His color looks the same as it always has, but I don't think he can use his back legs, and he hasn't eaten. Any tips?

[Jenste]

Try encouraging his appetite by offering live, bait store bought earth worms. You can buy 20-25 for $3 usually at a bait shop.

These frogs can go a while with out eating, I would keep up with the shallow water, make sure it is enough where his back is not exposed because he risks dehydration.

Change the water a few times daily and watch him. Try and keep him in an area which won't have a lot of temperature changes.

[mintyfresh]

I'll do just that, thanks! Like I said, he looks better, so I am hoping and praying his condition improves. I will make sure the water is clean and he has food, should he want some. I'll post updates if anything changes. Thanks!

[Jenste]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the little guy! By the way, does he have a name?

[mintyfresh]

Thanks Yeah, his name is Beavis...I used to have one named Butthead too (albino), but he passed away a while ago

[Mentat]

You got some good advice already, just want to touch couple points. ACF's are very though; but not bullet proof. You frog is probably suffering Toxin Out Syndrome (TOS) and possibly that killed the other one too. First of all stop the Epsom Salts; it will make things worse. Second get a good dechlorinator (Seachem Prime, Tetra Aquatize, etc.) and use it with tap and any water even if labeled spring. Start doing daily 100% water changes with same temperature water. Idea is to leach out of frog as many toxins as possible. Do offer food during this time; but not allow it to stay more than 5 minutes if uneaten

What are dimensions of small tank frog is in? If too small, the water quality problem will continue . If you take water (half filled plastic sandwich bag) from 10 gal. to a pet store they should conduct free tests if asked nicely. Interested in pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Good luck !

[mintyfresh]

Hey guys,

Beavis seems to be doing well. He still doesn't seem to have use of his back legs, but he looks fine and acts fine (unless I go to pick him up--he still scrunches up). He even tried to eat a nightcrawler (but it was too big so he spit it out--I cut one up but he wasn't in the mood for it)! I did, however, notice some white filmy stuff coming off of him--is this shed?

[mintyfresh]

URGENT: I need help!

I went to change his water today, and to do that I move him from one container to another. However, when I went to pick him up, he started struggling and it looked like there were lumps on his back (a bunch of them) as he was moving. He eventually settled down and the bumps subsided, but I have no idea what they are and I am really worried. How can I change his water now??