Deadly and contagious frog dermatitis

[RETFgirl]

I am a somewhat newbie to breeding red eyed tree frogs. I met a RETF breeder on this forum and proceeded to meet him at a reptile show to buy his frogs because I was very interested in breeding. I bought 5 that day. 4 from him and 1 from another breeder. I already had 7 adults, 1 juvenile and tadpoles from successfully breeding the 7 I already had. This put my collection to 12 adults(6M6F) a juvenile + tads. I was already treating my collection for parasites in sterilite tubs and I decided to treat the new ones too because I was building a new 134 gallon viv and didn't want to risk parasite contamination.
One of the frogs I purchased had a small reddish black spot on the hind leg on the day of purchase but I figured it to be some kind of scar. It did not appear to be sick and I trusted this breeder to not sell me a sick frog. After treating each frog with a single syringe for parasites, not keeping every single frog in its own tub (MY BIGGEST MISTAKE) and not hand washing after cleaning all 6 quarantine tubs each day I inadvertently spread a form of frog dermatitis to my entire collection. The male with the spot got another and another and 3 days later he was dying. I contacted Dr. Frye and immediately started silver sulfadiazine and switched from metronidazole to Baytril. Sure enough within a week one by one frogs were getting spots and they were not responding at all to treatment. Some got them on their mouths, some on their toe pads, all on the belly and on the flanks. They resembled cold sores on the body but the feet looked more like painful red growths that would hemorrhage and they spread daily on the body like wildfire. the males were hit the worst and the fastest. I just started euthanizing all of them not responding to treatment with Orajel. They were in horrendous pain I have only one that cleared up quickly with treatment, a large female, and she is still in quarantine but is thriving. 3 of the 4 frogs I purchased of his died, along with 4 others from my collection. 7 dead, 4 never came down with any symptoms. I discussed it with the breeder and he felt that since they were wild caught, the one frog could have been a carrier and the sickness took over after the stress from the show.

SOOOOOOOO.... my question is... has anyone ever dealt with this illness before? Were there any survivors? (I heard their NEVER is) and would putting the female who overcame the disease back with the others be too great of a risk? could future frogs be in jeopardy? I have 1 captive bred juvenile, and 6 of my own captive bred froglets. Could they ever go in the viv with the others pr breed with the ones who never came down with the illness?
Advice please

[Bolisnide]

these pics break my heart

[Bolisnide]

I am a somewhat newbie to breeding red eyed tree frogs. I met a Red-Eyed Leaf Frog breeder on this forum and proceeded to meet him at a reptile show to buy his frogs because I was very interested in breeding. I bought 5 that day. 4 from him and 1 from another breeder. I already had 7 adults, 1 juvenile and tadpoles from successfully breeding the 7 I already had. This put my collection to 12 adults(6M6F) a juvenile + tads. I was already treating my collection for parasites in sterilite tubs and I decided to treat the new ones too because I was building a new 134 gallon viv and didn't want to risk parasite contamination.
One of the frogs I purchased had a small reddish black spot on the hind leg on the day of purchase but I figured it to be some kind of scar. It did not appear to be sick and I trusted this breeder to not sell me a sick frog. After treating each frog with a single syringe for parasites, not keeping every single frog in its own tub (MY BIGGEST MISTAKE) and not hand washing after cleaning all 6 quarantine tubs each day I inadvertently spread a form of frog dermatitis to my entire collection. The male with the spot got another and another and 3 days later he was dying. I contacted Dr. Frye and immediately started silver sulfadiazine and switched from metronidazole to Baytril. Sure enough within a week one by one frogs were getting spots and they were not responding at all to treatment. Some got them on their mouths, some on their toe pads, all on the belly and on the flanks. They resembled cold sores on the body but the feet looked more like painful red growths that would hemorrhage and they spread daily on the body like wildfire. the males were hit the worst and the fastest. I just started euthanizing all of them not responding to treatment with Orajel. They were in horrendous pain I have only one that cleared up quickly with treatment, a large female, and she is still in quarantine but is thriving. 3 of the 4 frogs I purchased of his died, along with 4 others from my collection. 7 dead, 4 never came down with any symptoms. I discussed it with the breeder and he felt that since they were wild caught, the one frog could have been a carrier and the sickness took over after the stress from the show.

SOOOOOOOO.... my question is... has anyone ever dealt with this illness before? Were there any survivors? (I heard their NEVER is) and would putting the female who overcame the disease back with the others be too great of a risk? could future frogs be in jeopardy? I have 1 captive bred juvenile, and 6 of my own captive bred froglets. Could they ever go in the viv with the others pr breed with the ones who never came down with the illness?
Advice please

BUMP!!!!!!

I'm bumping this up; I can't believe no one has commented on this!
This is a serious disease, this should be addressed!
We should all (in the RETF owner 'world') be weary of this!
Doesn't anyone else think this could dis-rupt our RETFs in captivity if we buy RETF from a 'reputible' breader?
Thank you

To add: I'm curious how to prevent this, as I'm about to add to my frog population and DO NOT want to cantaminate my healthy frogs

[Lija]

wrong treatment, don't euthanize your frogs just yet, fight! find a vet around you or contact dr frye again, what he prescribed is used for regular infection, you need different approach, systemic and topical antibiotics and perhaps some antifungal treatment, hard to say from the pics it is most likely chytrid fungus that has complicated with secondary infection. the only way to know is to test samples and treat accordingly.
so sorry for you and your frogs.

good news - it is not contagious to humans

looks familiar ? that particular one has survived and after 6 months quarantine past treatment got back with a friend.


how to avoid - be paranoid every time you get new frogs from reputable breeder or not, quarantine everybody separately, meaning not just put everybody new in a separate enclosure, but every frog separately, even if they come from the same person. use separate everything for each frog, use gloves and change them every time you do something for each enclosure. and then proceed accordingly to the situation, but have them under very strict quarantine for at least 1 month, longer for WC frogs, get everybody tested for parasites, right now i will be keeping new frogs not only in separate everything, but in a separate room as well.
sometimes frogs are adapted to certain things, chytrid is one of them, and under extreme stress conditions ( been caught, shipped, etc...) it might start causing problems, some frogs can be carriers, they're more adapted to the fungus then others, so they appear healthy, but can spread it around. that is why never mix cb and wc frogs unless treated and tested and after very long quarantine only.

P.S. all above apply to any amphibian species, not just red eyes.

[GrifTheGreat]

The pic of the one deceased frog that apears hunched over would suggest Chytrid. Chytrid is very deadly and causes the frog to appear hunched over due to pain and how it attacks muscles in the body. Causes severe electrolyte imbalances, lesions, sores, blisters, even paralysis. The frogs will be ome listless, lethargic, and extremely stressed. Flipping over and not being able to right themselves is common and they usually die from the stress if the disease itself doesn't kill them first.

Any wild caught frog ir toad should be treated for Chytrid. It is a long process, but ensures that Chytrid doesn't take hold and spread throughout the collection. I'm sorry you lost so many. In the future be sure to ask whether they are WC or CB and treat accordingly.

Lija has given you good advice.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! I'm very sorry for frogs' illness and death . Please read this and follow strict quarantine procedures with new arrivals in the future: http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html . Good luck !