Help with advice about poorly frogs

[Mentat]

OK, from reading your second post appears to me the froglets could have suffered from Toxin Out Syndrome (TOS) due to "weekly to 10 days 25% water changes." Normally recommend changing at least 25% of water daily when there is no cycled filter in use. Then came the high temps and if the frogspawn had been exposed to Chytrid; it could have triggered the first issues with it. Did you record how hot it got in enclosure?

From there it appears you stopped the pathogen; but then, other issues have been surfacing because some frogs are relapsing (excessive shedding, etc.), and others are developing bacterial issues (eye infection and possible Red Leg). It is very possible TOS did internal organ damage (edema) and their immune system is very compromised.

So now only thing left is to try and save the remaining frogs. Recommend you follow Lynn's advice and complete the Lamasil treatment. Also, make sure the Spring Water is real spring without additives that could be bad for frogs (chloramines). Then see if you can get some Melafix and Pimafix in aquarium shop. If you can find them, let me know here and we will discuss a follow on treatment. Those two are natural based meds and will be milder than using chemical treatments like MG or antibiotics. Good luck !

[Lousfrogs]

Thanks for replying Carlos. I feel awful, I didn't realise I needed to change the main water so often. Some of the frogs didn't even use it, but used the feeding bowl ponds, which I replaced the water twice daily. The spring water I use doesn't contain any additives, and I guess I have to trust it actually came from the spring they claim it did, as with all spring water. At its hottest, it reached 30degC in the tank. I put the spring water in the fridge and used it when I did the water changes, getting all the frogs to go in there to cool down, although they were often in the feeding bowl ponds. The plastic looking frog passed in the night, I took some photos yesterday, when shining a torch down on him, his sides were filled with a clear fluid. The 3 healthier ones still seem OK, especially the small one. The one with the ulcer on his eye seems a tiny bit better, but is refusing to eat, and the one with the swollen leg is still very swollen (one photo I took showed 2 small yellow patches on the underside of the swollen thigh, and the thigh is very red, he has become very unhappy and now also refuses to eat. They are only 2-3cm in size, so I can't imagine how I could ever force feed them. I can get both Melafix and Pimafix from my local pet store, so have bought both and will await your instructions. Both are by API and the Melafix is 240ml and the Pimafix is 118ml. I will also get the Lamisil at the shops this evening, but won't start any treatment until I hear from you. I have bathed them in a saline solution twice a day for the past few days - should I continue that too? The pictures show 1. the frog with the very swollen right leg and 2. the frog that I thought had red leg, he no longer has red thighs but his skin has remained pinkish, almost copper gold in some lights, and veins are visible beneath his skin. You can see how different he is to the other 2. He is one of the most active frogs though.

[Mentat]

OK, Melafix is a mild natural bactericide and Pimafix is a mild fungicide with some effect against internal bacteria. Also, Pimafix will kill the white little Planaria worms that inhabit many tanks (live of detritus); so if you see some white little things floating around do not worry.

Both medications can be used together, so what you will do is premix like a gallon of it in dechlorinated water according to label instructions. Then use that medicating solution in pond area and/or frog's baths. Once mixed you can store solution in a dark place. You will replace it 100% daily and treat for 7 days. If a frog is to weak or does not visit the medicated solution; gently place it on it (level to it's chin is fine) and keep frog there for around 20 minutes ea. day.

Le us know how things go and hopefully frogs will improve some. Have no idea of any possible interaction/interference with the Lamasil treatment; so would complete that before doing the Melafix/Pimafix bath. Hope the frogs do recover, but if internal organs have been damaged, we can't repair that. Good luck !

[Lousfrogs]

That's great, thanks. I have now put each frog into its own little hospital tank, which I clean twice a day, so I will give each a bath in the solution for 20 mins every day whilst I clean their little tanks. I really hope it works too, as I have really fallen in love with the little guys, and they each have their own characters. I was wondering if the frog with the swollen leg had maybe been bitten by a black cricket? I read somewhere they are more vicious, and they are always bigger than the brown ones. In which case, should I maybe do the Melafix/Pimafix first, especially for him, as he may have a bacterial infection in his leg, and the Lamisil wouldn't help that?

[Lousfrogs]

Unfortunately, frog with the swollen right leg didn't make it through that night. There was a little red mark on his swollen thigh - could this have been a black cricket? I think I read somewhere they can bite more than brown ones, but I thought I was giving the frogs some variety in their food... Day 4 of the melafix/pimafix bath now.... The 3 healthier frogs are still doing well, the one is still pink coloured but the smaller one doesn't seem to have the problem with his eyes being half pulled into his head anymore. The frog with the ulcer on its eye is still hanging in there, she is feisty when I move her to the baths etc but doesn't move the rest of the time. She hates being in the hospital tank on tissue paper, and bunches herself up, and refuses to eat. She prefers it in a 1/2 cm of water, but still refuses to eat. She is so emaciated now, I really do not know what to do. I have tried half drowning crickets for her so she doesn't have to chase them, even putting them on the end of her nose, and she refuses. I tried her with a calci worm (they don't seem to be able to digest them but they seem to love them) but still nothing. She is barely 2cm, so it is impossible to contemplate force feeding her. What should I do?! I really can't bear to lose her after everything... Any ideas?

[Mentat]

Would not use black or different crickets other than regular brown feeders. Some species are aggressive and have been known to attack reptiles and amphibians. Rather than calciworms suggest using pieces of night crawlers (cut from pointy end) dusted in Fluker's Repta Boost.

If frogs underwent a second Lamasil treatment and do not respond to the Melafix/Pimafix treatment; only thing can think of is a trip to a veterinary with experience in reptiles/amphibians. Melafix/Pimafix are kind of slow acting; but you should see daily improvements albeit small. Being froglets they are quite delicate and if their organs have suffered damage it's impossible to help fix. I'm very sorry for the death of swollen leg frog and status of skinny one with bad eye .

[Lousfrogs]

Thank you for taking the time Carlos. I know it is down to them now, and she will need to decide to eat or not I guess. I can't find night crawlers on any of the livefood websites I usually use, so I will have to look again for those (do they possibly have another name?), but I have found and ordered the Repta Boost and that looks great! I didn't even know these things existed, and I posted on a couple other forums, but nobody even replied to me, I guess because they were common frogs, not exotics, but I feel the combination of these things could save these frogs, especially the 3 healthier ones. I have learnt a lot (even un-useful things like frogs don't digest cricket heads!) and when the time comes, I feel more confident with an exotic. I will keep to the brown crickets from now on. Is it OK to just release the calci worms in a local field, or should I dispose of them somehow?