wild animals vs pet store feeders, are they both safe for pixies to eat?

[mattfish]

I'm getting annoyed....... A lot....... Matt, any trained vet can and will fix anything? ..... It is very much obvious that you have no medical or vet knowledge of any sorts, no doctor human or veterinarian can fix everything, there are zoonotic decreases that frog can have and you can get infected as well, there are bunch of problems that might cause you to euthanize one frog or even your whole collection.... frankly I'm not sure if there is anything to discuss. Your choice to put or not your frog is possible danger....it is a big deal and it is serious.
Sorry I don't want to offend you but having myself deal with zoonotic problem right now it makes me plain mad how you underestimate a danger you might put yourself and your frog in.
It is the worst idea possible to get frog (anyone) get exposed to something in order to get immunity. It doesn't work this way especially not in a captive environment.

do you own dogs? are you terrified if they go outside? You have to calm down a little bit. its not like i am scooping up dead animals out side of poison traps or along side the road. I am taking healthy wild animals and deep freezing them for a week, then feeding. My dogs eat tons of stuff outside and bounce back inside. I am not paralized with fear because of that. they have a different immune system than me and it has never effected them. Just like frogs. Just because i dont see your convictions as serious as you do, doesnt mean i am a terrible person. I think my frog is awesome and i want him to be the best he can be. I happen to think that powdered insects as a main diet is not as good as a diverse diet of many critters. This forum is not just for you and me it is for people to read both veiw points and choose which one sounds better to them. that is what we want right?

[Lija]

Matt...
That is a part that makes me mad and perhaps overreacting too... I had to euthanize one frog and now entire collection of frogs, reptiles is under full scale quarantine, all humans who were in a contact are under medical care as well and yet you're willingly taking wild caught stuff into your house and stating it is ok, despite that so many people are saying otherwise....

You should be happy you didn't have much problems yet... The more you see, the more you know, the more serious and at times even paranoid lol, you become in terms of risk factors. You can't be too safe.
You can't compare dogs and frogs or any other exotic pets. There is so much more can be done for dogs that is not available for frogs in a time of crisis, especially if you have funds for it, companion animal medicine is way more advanced then exotic one with way more possibilities.

Deep freezing will not make it safe to feed, deep freezing will do nothing to most bacteria, viruses heavy metals and other stuff, even some parasites will be perfectly happy to live once defrozen. Bleach will not kill everything.... Disinfecting in my household right now looks like that - destroy everything that can't be disinfected, not diluted bleach, then 100% alcohol then undiluted bleach again and after that I still don't have 100% guarantee that it is gonna be safe... I understand that is extreme, but I have no choice...... So yeah I think I can have an excuse for reacting a bit too much when people underestimating danger.

Anyhow I see you're convinced you do a right thing, I wish you all the best.

[Truffs1178]

Matt...
That is a part that makes me mad and perhaps overreacting too... I had to euthanize one frog and now entire collection of frogs, reptiles is under full scale quarantine.

You had to kill frogs?

[Mentat]

You had to kill frogs?

There are incurable, highly contagious pathogens out there Jack. Some of them can even present a risk to ourselves and our families. In those cases we have no option than to euthanize a pet . It's not fun; I've done it myself .

[Truffs1178]

There are incurable, highly contagious pathogens out there Jack. Some of them can even present a risk to ourselves and our families. In those cases we have no option than to euthanize a pet . It's not fun; I've done it myself .

I know how sad it is to kill a pet or see it be killed. When I was little I watched the vet put down my Beagle because he had cancer. I cried then and now that I thought about it again I'm crying now. Sorry for your frogs.

[NialR35]

Matt...
That is a part that makes me mad and perhaps overreacting too... I had to euthanize one frog and now entire collection of frogs, reptiles is under full scale quarantine, all humans who were in a contact are under medical care as well and yet you're willingly taking wild caught stuff into your house and stating it is ok, despite that so many people are saying otherwise....

You should be happy you didn't have much problems yet... The more you see, the more you know, the more serious and at times even paranoid lol, you become in terms of risk factors. You can't be too safe.
You can't compare dogs and frogs or any other exotic pets. There is so much more can be done for dogs that is not available for frogs in a time of crisis, especially if you have funds for it, companion animal medicine is way more advanced then exotic one with way more possibilities.

Deep freezing will not make it safe to feed, deep freezing will do nothing to most bacteria, viruses heavy metals and other stuff, even some parasites will be perfectly happy to live once defrozen. Bleach will not kill everything.... Disinfecting in my household right now looks like that - destroy everything that can't be disinfected, not diluted bleach, then 100% alcohol then undiluted bleach again and after that I still don't have 100% guarantee that it is gonna be safe... I understand that is extreme, but I have no choice...... So yeah I think I can have an excuse for reacting a bit too much when people underestimating danger.

Anyhow I see you're convinced you do a right thing, I wish you all the best.

Wow Lija, I hope every one is okay....How did something like this happen though? If you don't mind me asking because it sounds bad if your whole collection is in a full scale quarantine and all humans that were in contact are under medical care. I wish you the best though and hope everything gets sorted out soon.

[Lija]

Thank you guys for support.
It is bad and it is serious, but so far it doesn't look anyone else got infected and we should be all fine, but will need to wait up to 5 months in a panic mode lol we are at almost 2 months now. I have no idea how that thing got in, except may be with live plant that is not really possible to disinfect without killing prior to placing it in, I just so happy that we always disinfect hands and everything in between doing something in different enclosures, basically all my animals have always been under mild quarantine conditions even before all that, so I'm hopeful it is gonna be all right.

Anyhow, just be careful guys . Always!

[mattfish]

Thank you guys for support.
It is bad and it is serious, but so far it doesn't look anyone else got infected and we should be all fine, but will need to wait up to 5 months in a panic mode lol we are at almost 2 months now. I have no idea how that thing got in, except may be with live plant that is not really possible to disinfect without killing prior to placing it in, I just so happy that we always disinfect hands and everything in between doing something in different enclosures, basically all my animals have always been under mild quarantine conditions even before all that, so I'm hopeful it is gonna be all right.

Anyhow, just be careful guys . Always!

Just like i have been trying to say, even if you do everything right and buy only store bought stuff there is still ALWAYS a risk. diseases are everywhere so to worry about them is pointless. use a little common sense and cross your fingers. I choose to make sure my frog has immunities to almost everything possible, that is the best decision to me.
i am sorry to hear about your loss!!

[DeltaElite121]

Just like i have been trying to say, even if you do everything right and buy only store bought stuff there is still ALWAYS a risk. diseases are everywhere so to worry about them is pointless. use a little common sense and cross your fingers. I choose to make sure my frog has immunities to almost everything possible, that is the best decision to me.
i am sorry to hear about your loss!!

There are many diseases and parasites that NO amount of prevention will help you, and by the time you figure out something is wrong it can be inherently too late. There are ALWAYS risks anywhere you go, but the difference with many of these feeder farms are the fact they watch carefully over their livestock.. if you think they (the feeder farm owners) don't pay attention to 20 people phonecalling them saying "my animal has _______ disease now and I ONLY buy my crickets from you! You no longer get my money thanks to my vet bills!" then you're out of your mind. Many people have very expensive, exotic animals reaching in the thousands of dollars and won't hesitate to seek compensation in the event something like this pops up.. which is exactly why many of those farms are careful about things. While there's certainly no set way of doing things, I'd say you're walking right into trouble for obvious reasons. Look at it this way - that's like me "boosting my immune system" for all the diseases here and heading straight over to Africa with no fear of Malaria because "I prepared myself". Do you know how ridiculous that is? There's a reason why immunizations are required when you do that sort of traveling.. because we as humans JUST LIKE ANIMALS don't have a "one size fits all" immune system. Genetics don't work that way, even in frogs. They may be better than a lot of animals out there, but we're just talking about some types diseases and parasites... we're not including the other stuff like ground contamination from pollution or fertilizers, or any other man-made synthetics ingested/passed on to the frog. That stuff will also take a giant toll on your animals (if not worse). Nobody here is disagreeing with you because you chose to make a different decision from us; we disagree with you as a collective whole because what you're doing lacks common sense. You can't reinvent the wheel of genetics and we can't either. It takes many generations to see any remote changes in disease tolerance, and that's assuming all conditions are hypothetically equivalent.

[mattfish]

that makes alot of sense, but why do mexicans drink their water? why couldnt i go to mexico and drink the water? there are big deadly diseases, that are rare in the wild. and there are diseases that ,if done in small amounts, the immune system will destroy. most of the time pet animals sucumb to small diseases because of their lack of immunity. it is very rare to encounter the worlds most aggressively deadly ones. Usualy the natural enviroment breaks these things down unless conditions are perfect for duplication of the terrible disease. Now if i lived next to a toxic dump site or landfill runoff or a large cave, then i would worry to feed my frog wild things. But i dont so as long as the animal looks healthy i will make a decision to feed it.
I also dont think you guys have a clue of what your breeder rat facility looks like. there are no guild lines of law for them to follow other than licensing of the business. if you have an animal get sick from there feeders there is NOTHING that you can do to these facilities! there is no way on earth you would prove anything to a court. stop kidding yourselves and go take a roadtrip and take a walkthrew (IF THEY WILL EVEN LET YOU IN). I know what a majority of rat breeding facilities look like. It is usually out of some guys basement and stinks like amonia and flies fill the air. the pet stores buy from the cheapest places. I have known about this for a long time and am suprised at all your trust in "store bought". there is way more risk in what you feed your frog than what you think. Lija thinks her disease came from a plant, but i would put alot of money on her food supplier. But never the less you will never prove it. Rat breeders will continue to do what they do and if you lose a 9 year old frog due to a disease the facility let in, too bad for you. wake up and welcome to reality.
Sparrows are safer than some store bought? Yes

[mattfish]

[QUOTE=Lija;196924]Matt...
That is a part that makes me mad and perhaps overreacting too... I had to euthanize one frog and now entire collection of frogs, reptiles is under full scale quarantine, all humans who were in a contact are under medical care as well and yet you're willingly taking wild caught stuff into your house and stating it is ok, despite that so many people are saying otherwise....

May i ask how that disease came to your frog?

[Mentat]

Hi Matt! No one here thinks you are a terrible person . From reading your posts in this and other threads, it's clear you have your way of doing things and learning. That is all good and fine because they are your frogs, dogs, etc. Myself would not give my frog or let my dog eat anything found outside in the wild...ever. It's not a matter of immunity, logic, or trust in my veterinary's capability. It's a matter of risk!

Me and other members in forum do not estimate risk like you do; that is all. You can present your methods, see the logic in them, argue every point and debate your position for a very long time and that is fine. However, as long as other members consider it a risk to their loved pets, they will continue to take a stand against that risk. Again, no one here is a terrible person and every now and then, we just have to agree that we disagree !

[mattfish]

Hi Matt! No one here thinks you are a terrible person . From reading your posts in this and other threads, it's clear you have your way of doing things and learning. That is all good and fine because they are your frogs, dogs, etc. Myself would not give my frog or let my dog eat anything found outside in the wild...ever. It's not a matter of immunity, logic, or trust in my veterinary's capability. It's a matter of risk!

Me and other members in forum do not estimate risk like you do; that is all. You can present your methods, see the logic in them, argue every point and debate your position for a very long time and that is fine. However, as long as other members consider it a risk to their loved pets, they will continue to take a stand against that risk. Again, no one here is a terrible person and every now and then, we just have to agree that we disagree !

well spooken carlos! I am just sharing with everyone A way. there are many diseases in the world and so to constantly think of "worse case senerio" for every possible decision is a waist of time. For me i will take the risk of a well balanced diet instead of the risk of depleated overall health from an unbalanced diet. I "might" have a problem some day. and if i do i have you guys to contact. (:
Thank you for the kind words.

[mattfish]

Carlos,
If you let your dog outside believe me it is eating things that you would not like. that is what an animal does. yet if your dog has been let out since it was a puppy it has built up immunities to many many many things. think of the parasites that are on rabbits. and dogs love to roll and eat rabbit droppings.
these same rules apply to all living things. easpecial an african frog.