Answers to trouble in the enclosure.

[Truffs1178]

Thanks for the help everyone. I removed the heat mat and he seems happier. He was sat really upright waiting for food. Tomorrow ill give him something big. I have asked this before but never got a real answer. What would be the healthiest option as a once a month feeder, rats, mice, chicken chicks. The store sells other things like gerbils and quails also but they're more expensive. I alo know that none of these are better than insect live foods but they save money for one week every month by filling him up. And also all of yhese are pre killed because of some law over here which makes it illegal to feed live vertebrates to something.

[NialR35]

Thanks for the help everyone. I removed the heat mat and he seems happier. He was sat really upright waiting for food. Tomorrow ill give him something big. I have asked this before but never got a real answer. What would be the healthiest option as a once a month feeder, rats, mice, chicken chicks. The store sells other things like gerbils and quails also but they're more expensive. I alo know that none of these are better than insect live foods but they save money for one week every month by filling him up. And also all of yhese are pre killed because of some law over here which makes it illegal to feed live vertebrates to something.

Well for a monthly "treat" you will be fine with quail chicks, or a hopper(above a fuzzie, below a mouse). I would stay away from rats UNLESS its a rat pup, but from what I've read younger rats/mice are easier to digest than adults ones. It all depends on the frogs size as well. Rule of thumb is to feed something he can gulp down without effort OR within two "bites/gulps", so since your frog is 6-7" SVL I would feel comfortable feeding a rat pup, pre-killed mouse( again depending on the size of it) or a quail/chicken chick would also be fine but the feathers could be a little annoying to digest as well.

Nevertheless, you should be fine with any of those. If I were you, I would just do either a hopper or rat pup and see how much that fills him up. Then depending on how it goes, I would move up to a pre-killed mouse to avoid damage to your frog's eyes/face. Remember though, only once a month because mice/rats are very fatty and high in protein so even though they might be beneficial as a once per month treat(yet not mandatory), its a liability in the long run.

I don't know why every time I see your avatar pic, I think he is eating a rat lol.

[Truffs1178]

Its an adult mouse hes eating. He will hopefully be able to eat rats soon. if he gets bigger which I hope he does.

[NialR35]

Its an adult mouse hes eating. He will hopefully be able to eat rats soon. if he gets bigger which I hope he does.

Well since you already fed an adult mouse then that should do the trick for the monthly trick. Rats are bigger though and an adult rat might be too much/harder to digest. Try quail chicks, I know a frogger here that breeds feeders and he breeds those. I remember him saying they were very nutritious for a treat.

[mattfish]

Well for a monthly "treat" you will be fine with quail chicks, or a hopper(above a fuzzie, below a mouse). I would stay away from rats UNLESS its a rat pup, but from what I've read younger rats/mice are easier to digest than adults ones. It all depends on the frogs size as well. Rule of thumb is to feed something he can gulp down without effort OR within two "bites/gulps", so since your frog is 6-7" SVL I would feel comfortable feeding a rat pup, pre-killed mouse( again depending on the size of it) or a quail/chicken chick would also be fine but the feathers could be a little annoying to digest as well.

Nevertheless, you should be fine with any of those. If I were you, I would just do either a hopper or rat pup and see how much that fills him up. Then depending on how it goes, I would move up to a pre-killed mouse to avoid damage to your frog's eyes/face. Remember though, only once a month because mice/rats are very fatty and high in protein so even though they might be beneficial as a once per month treat(yet not mandatory), its a liability in the long run.

I don't know why every time I see your avatar pic, I think he is eating a rat lol.

so you tell people to feed mice and rats but "wild animals" are not good? have you ever gone to a rat breeders facility? its nasty. you take a risk of disease no matter what you feed. i do agree that wild is a tiny bit bigger of a risk but not much.

[Truffs1178]

Yes a wild caught sparrow is more of a risk than captive bred rats. It isn't as disease ridden as you think.

[mattfish]

what isnt, the sparrow or the rat? rats wiped out alot of people with diseases over human history. private breeders dont get vet checks for the rats. how do you know how healthy a frozen rat was unless you personally breed your own food sources for the frog? all it takes is an outside flee jumping in a rat breeders room and wa-la you have some funky stuff going from rat to rat. all feeder critters are a risk.

[NialR35]

so you tell people to feed mice and rats but "wild animals" are not good? have you ever gone to a rat breeders facility? its nasty. you take a risk of disease no matter what you feed. i do agree that wild is a tiny bit bigger of a risk but not much.

There is a HUGE difference between feeding random wild caught animals like you did and feeding actual feeders that were bred just for the sole purpose of feeding reptiles. These mice/rats have not been exposed to the outside world and do not carry the many commonly known diseases because they never acquired them; and the risks between feeding wild caught animals and animals that were bred for feeding purposes are miles away. What you said did not make sense at all.

We are not feeding random sewer rats here or a bird that flew in through my window, they are animals that were born to be eaten and have not gotten in contact with diseases/pests/plagues. They might not be 100% parasite free, but the chances of getting your frog sick are WAY higher by feeding wild caught animals.

[mattfish]

There is a HUGE difference between feeding random wild caught animals like you did and feeding actual feeders that were bred just for the sole purpose of feeding reptiles. These mice/rats have not been exposed to the outside world and do not carry the many commonly know diseases because they never acquired them; and the risk between feeding wild caught animals and animals that were bred for feeding purposes are miles away. What you said did not make sense at all.

First of all the way you wrote the word "HUGE" so large is cool!
second, breeder rats die of just as funky diseases as wild animals do. all the breeder does when one of his breeder rats die is throw it in the freezer for someones snake to eat. like i said, outside bugs bring in diseases to any facility. think about it, store bought frozen rats didnt come from some guys priced pet rat collection. they came from a very weird stinky guy named The Rat Guy basement breeding facility that stinks worse than a football game porta-john on a hot summer day.

[Janice]

My tank is set up 1/3 water with a filter in tank, and 2/3 coco fiber, organic garden soil, spaghnum moss. I have a heat mat so that most of it is under the water side very little is on the other side. Then because my tank was a 20 gal tall, I didnt want him to have very deep substrate so I put large rocks in the bottom of the tank so he can only burrow down to pretty much cover himself but I can always tell where was. I dont know what is normal for them because I have only had mine not quite a year, but mine was burrowing and staying there for a week or so, so I left him one entire week, then I could see him thru the side of the glass but under the soil. so I removed the top a little and let some lttle mice run around for a bit. Then I dumped a container of night crawlers in the tank and he ate them... I got up one morning and the tank was a mess, but when I ran my fingers thru the soil there werent any night crawlers but one or two left. Now he has become a pig, he has gotten into the water now that it is warm from the heat mat and he hangs out betwee the side of the aquarium and the filter, he is so fat he can just wedge himself there, and you get a up close and personal view of his belly side..... Or what ever way he is turned. He is handsome.

[Truffs1178]

what isnt, the sparrow or the rat? rats wiped out alot of people with diseases over human history. private breeders dont get vet checks for the rats. how do you know how healthy a frozen rat was unless you personally breed your own food sources for the frog? all it takes is an outside flee jumping in a rat breeders room and wa-la you have some funky stuff going from rat to rat. all feeder critters are a risk.

Why would a flea be jumping on a rat kept indoors? A disease doesn't just appear on the rats just because their rats. Dragons Den and animal tracks(the pet stores I use) isn't full of a bunch of idiots and all of them keep exotics. One guy has 101 lizards alone and that's not including other animals its just his lizards. They get their frozen feeders from reliable breeders not huge filthy, industrial breeding facility's. Not all rat breeding facilities are horrible, cramped or disease ridden place. Their rats are healthy now can we just drop this argument and I think you need to realize that wild caught sparrows are a worse choice of diet than captive bred frozen mice and rats.

[mattfish]

why would a flea be jumping on a rat kept indoors? are you serious? a flea or fly can get into any area that has alot of animals in it. flies carry many diseases also. so i dont know where this mystical perfect sancuary is that these prestine feeder rats you get come from but maybe you should take a day trip to check out this magical facility your petstore gets rats from. rat breeder facilities are NOT usda appoved, nor have to be, by law.
a wild sparrow and a petstore rat both have risks. i always deep freeze any animal i feed to my frog for at least a week, including petstore feeders.

[Truffs1178]

rat breeder facilities are NOT usda appoved,

Well I don't live in the US sooo....... Also by the way the U.S. has alot more diseases than Britain so less chance of rats being infected. For example there is no rabies here anymore. The UK is clean of alot of diease because we are so small compared to America and we have eliminated so many diseases because they are easy to find on a tiny island. And your point about rats killing humans can't be applied to this argument because frogs and people are very different creatures. Frogs can eat salmonella ridden feeder rats but if we did we would get food poisoning. Freezing doesn't kill all disease just makes them dormant. As soon as its defrosted then they start to reproduce again.

[Truffs1178]

Can someone close this thread? It's turned from helping my frog into a debate about the cleanliness of Sparrows and rats.

[JeffreH]

I'm locking this thread per request of the OP - getting off topic.