One Of My Dumpy Frogs Died Today

[fr0g9]

Thanks for the pictures, now I can help! The light green spots are a sign of an advanced Chytrid fungus. Normally when it gets to that stage the spots are a bit bigger then that, but I think the high temps may be the reason they are smaller in this case. There is no way he caught the Chytrid virus from your setup, the temps are too high & you haven't had him long enough for it to progress that far.

For the sick frog you are going to want to start Lamisil treatment ASAP, here's what you need: First you need to locate some Lamisil AF Spray (make sure its the spray, not the gel), you can find it at Wal-Mart or Rite-Aid (Walgreens won't have spray, only have gel). Lamisil is made for treating athletes foot, so you will find it in the foot section. Next you are going to want to set up a temporary holding cell for the infected frog, the reason for this instead of his current housing is because you NEED to clean his living quarters daily so you want something smaller than his current tank for this. For the holding cell I recommend getting a plastic "Critter Keeper" (size: large) with 3 sides covered, eco friendly paper towels (light brown in color), a fake plant, and of course his water dish (changed twice daily). For anyone else trying this I would also say add a miniature under tank heater (the micro ones I believe are only 3 watts, a larger one is dangerous to use on plastic), but for you (kahluafeeders) the temps you posted are already high enough to prevent/weaken the fungus so you definitely shouldn't use any extra heat source. You will also need a separate container for his special Lamisil baths, a plastic shoebox with some holes in the lid works great for this.

Now for the treatment process: Once a day you are going to give him a 6-minute bath in a solution of spring water mixed with Lamisil. In-between each Lamisil bath it's very important that you clean out his temporary living quarters (you can do this while he's taking his bath). The approximate measurement I was given was 10 squirts of Lamisil per 500ml of water, the Lamisil Spray is a continuous flow nozzle so you won't be able to be exact. Put enough water in the bathing box so the frog can sit comfortably in it without having his mouth or nose submerged. Add Lamisil spray AFTER adding water, if the water is still completely clear there isn't enough Lamisil; the water should be very SLIGHTLY cloudy, you should see some small white particles floating around & its OK if you have a couple Lamisil blotches form on the bottom from where you sprayed. My setup held around 800ml of water at the desired water level, and tapping the nozzle rapidly 10-12 times seemed to be the provide the perfect amount. This Lamisil stuff does have some alcohol in it, so too much could be harmful! When you set the frog in the bath, use both index fingers to support his front legs so you can set him in gently with his back legs going in first, careful not to leave him in too long! In my experience, the frog will seem to enjoy the sensation during the bath, mine dunked down in it quickly a few times like he was trying to get it on the full surface area of his skin, and right around 5 minutes (right when he should be removed from the bath) he would climb up on one of the sides, almost like he knew how long he should be in there! The instruction I was given said to repeat this every day for two full weeks, some people said 7-10 days was good and it worked for them. For my sub-adult frog I only did 7 days of baths because by the second day his dark spots were completely gone, and by the end of the week his skin was looking so great, he was croaking every night, and was eating aggressively like a young frog should, so I could just tell the Lamisil had worked its magic! It's been 3 weeks since I did the treatment and there has been no signs of it returning, this really works and a lot of people have had wonderful experiences with this method!

Google around to see what other people say about the Lamisil baths, and check to see if there's anything I missed. I know I had trouble finding detailed instructions, so I'm trying to give you the best instructions out there! If anyone thinks of something to add, please chime in! I really hope you try this and have the same success I did, good luck to you and your frog!

[Mentat]

Respectfully disagree with light green spots being evidence of advance Chytrid fungus. To me they represent a skin irritation and should resolve once problem is removed. OP should ensure hands are washed well and rinsed with dechlorinated tap before handling frogs. I wear rinsed in dechlorinated water disposable gloves on rare occasions handle mines. IMO the priority now is to prevent further exposure to high temps and get frog eating again, good luck !

[flybyferns]

kahluafeeders,
How is your frog doing?

[kahluafeeders]

I tried to feed again last night, but as far as I see, it was a no-go. My waxworms are now either dead or turning into moths I've had them so long. I've never had anything turn down waxworms. Even my dog will eat them if I accidentally leave one within her reach.

Other than that, I'm confused as to weather I should try the fungus treatment or not. For more clarification, the frog that died was a dark green/brown color when I got him. There were no spots and then over the next few days he started to develop the spots as shown. The night before he died, most of his head was mottled but I don't have a photo of it. The frog that is still alive was also a dark green/brown when I got him and by the next day he was all light green and has been that way since, which is why I thought it was normal for the frog that died.

When I do handle my frogs, I make sure to wash my hands with dawn soap first (I work in the food industry, so it helps best to get food from around my nails). Then I rinse for about five minutes, scrubbing every part of my hand I can. Then I rinse them in water I've treated for the frogs for about a minute. I dry my hands and then spray them with the treated water I keep in a misting bottle (unless I know I'm only going in to get the water bowl or know I won't be touching the frogs, then I keep my hands dry). The only thing I can think of is that I don't wash my entire arms doctor-style and sometimes the frogs do climb further up. In general, however, they tend to stay on my fingers. Or my face. Lol. ETA: Should I invest in some food grade gloves for handling? I don't plan on handling often, at least not the tree frog. The pacman needs it more often because I have to find him in order for him to know I've put food in the cage. Otherwise he'd starve. Lol

So, should I get the fungus treatment just in case or not bother? I'm confused.

[flybyferns]

Lets back up !

When was the last time this frog ate?
When was the last time you saw a poop?
How long have you had the frog?
Do you have Fluker's Repta Boost on hand?
Can you please post a photo of this frog
Have you controlled the temp?
Is the frog in a hospital set-up?
Do you find the frog sitting in the water dish.

The discoloration of the dyeing frog may have been because it was dyeing.

These light spots could be anything from a bacterial infection to parasites !

kahluafeeders,
The only 100% way you can determine if your frog has Chytrid fungus is to have it tested.
I believe you should know what your are treating.
I would seriously consider seeking help from a herp vet.

Here is Dr Frye's contact information:
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-prepared.html
Email him, send a photo , information including a weight or measurement of the frog.
He will not charge you.... to discuss his opinion for the use or ? instructions for this Chytrid treatment.
Any other medications can be ordered over the phone.

As far as handling the frog without gloves. All I can share with you is : I do not. I can not ....as I have 22 frogs and 6 species. It's an open door for the transmission 'bugs' from one enclosure to another. I use disposables between tanks...And still scrub my hands when I'm done. I guess if you do not have them... then continue scrubbing

BTW
Feed the frog the moths !!!! They are easier to digest than the worms !
I raise the wax worm moths for my tree frogs- they love them ( I never use the worms for food)

Lynn
Please PM or leave me a visitor's page message when you answer the above questions
Hope to talk to you soon

[fr0g9]

I believe you should know what your are treating.
I would seriously consider seeking help from a herp vet.

As do I, but if the Frog hasn't eaten in 2 weeks you probably won't have time to have it tested and wait on test results. I had a chocolate colored Dumpy, she was my Favorite Frog, she showed spots that looked very much like the ones in your picture before succumbing to a fungal infection. If it was my frog I would take the chance and try the treatment, Lamisil Defense Spray Powder only cost $5 at walmart and it has worked for a lot of people!

For my new Frog I did not have him tested, I saw many different signs which I researched them I confirmed it was all pointing to fungus! My favorite Frog had just died a week ago so you could say I somewhat panicked when I saw all these issues with my new baby. His belly/legs were red and looked blistering, small dark ulcers forming on his back, muscle spasms (back leg twitches), and was scratching his nose against the sides of the glass! His natural spotting was also worrying me because it wasn't there when I got him, he has some small white spots with dark rings on his sides/back, but now I know those are just part of his natural look and only appear during the day when he's showing off his bright colors! The reason I picked him out at the store was because his chocolate color reminded me of my Big Frog, he hasn't been brown since i had him now he's an amazing blue/green!

[kahluafeeders]

So I suppose doing the treatment as a precaution probably won't kill the frog right? I'll get photos in the morning and message Dr. Frye. When I came home from work about 40 minutes ago, the frog moved from his favorite spot on the container I keep in there to the grapevine. I didn't see any waxworm moths, but I also didn't look too closely. If they're still in there, they are either in the fake plant or behind the cork board. When I treat the frog tomorrow, I will be tearing down the entire tank. I'm going to have to look for an extra shoe box for feeding.

On the plus side, I had given up on my cricket cultures and went to toss out the soil. I opened up my shoebox and discovered that I now have several hundred baby crickets (at least). They took forever to hatch, but it looks like I have the beginnings of a colony. I'll be adding some older crickets over the next few months so that I can stagger breedings. Now all I have to do is get up the courage to breed waxworms. I hear they are tough to breed compared to other bugs. And if only I had the money to restart my dubia colony... I'm down to about six and that is slow growth! Same with my mealworms. I let them putter out too and only have a hundred or so left.

So, when I break down the cage tomorrow, should I toss the Eco Earth or freeze it or bake it? It's practically brand new and I'd love to reuse it. Also, should I freeze or bake the cork board and grapevine? Poor froggie will have a pretty bare tank for a while during treatment. I also don't know if I should use grape seed oil or vinegar to sanitize the tank. I've always used vinegar with my animals, but it's pretty smelly stuff. Last but not least, I'm wondering if I can make my own substrate for the frog? For my turtles, I use a top soil/sand/peat moss(sphagnum)/sheet moss mix. Would this work for a frog?

[fr0g9]

There are a wide variety of possible symptoms for Chytrid, but there is one symptom that seems most common: The Frog gets these "Lime Green Spots of Death" literally a day or two before it expires. My chocolate brown dumpy had spots that looked almost identical, they were a little bigger but then again my frog was probably 2-3 times that size (they started off as a cloudy grey spots and turned to lime green in his last hours). Any strange extending of the legs is also a tell-tale sign of Chytrid, and it's way more common than you might think for new frogs to come with it from the pet store.

I have no doubt in my mind that the Lamisil treatment saved one of my new Dumpy's, who came with an infection. I treated my other Dumpy that was housed with him as well, just in-case because it is very contagious between frogs. Both are doing great now, it's been almost a month later & their skin looks better than ever.

[fr0g9]

I tried to feed again last night, but as far as I see, it was a no-go. My waxworms are now either dead or turning into moths I've had them so long. I've never had anything turn down waxworms. Even my dog will eat them if I accidentally leave one within her reach.

Other than that, I'm confused as to weather I should try the fungus treatment or not. For more clarification, the frog that died was a dark green/brown color when I got him. There were no spots and then over the next few days he started to develop the spots as shown. The night before he died, most of his head was mottled but I don't have a photo of it. The frog that is still alive was also a dark green/brown when I got him and by the next day he was all light green and has been that way since, which is why I thought it was normal for the frog that died.

When I do handle my frogs, I make sure to wash my hands with dawn soap first (I work in the food industry, so it helps best to get food from around my nails). Then I rinse for about five minutes, scrubbing every part of my hand I can. Then I rinse them in water I've treated for the frogs for about a minute. I dry my hands and then spray them with the treated water I keep in a misting bottle (unless I know I'm only going in to get the water bowl or know I won't be touching the frogs, then I keep my hands dry). The only thing I can think of is that I don't wash my entire arms doctor-style and sometimes the frogs do climb further up. In general, however, they tend to stay on my fingers. Or my face. Lol. ETA: Should I invest in some food grade gloves for handling? I don't plan on handling often, at least not the tree frog. The pacman needs it more often because I have to find him in order for him to know I've put food in the cage. Otherwise he'd starve. Lol

So, should I get the fungus treatment just in case or not bother? I'm confused.

Sorry I'm not trying to confuse you with an information overload! Were the spots always Lime Green, or did they turn this color at the end?

There are a lot of symptoms that can point to Chytrid: the thing I have noticed that really points to Chytrid it is if the Frog is fully extending his legs for no reason, this is not natural for them.

[Mentat]

IRT Green Spots: http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...een-spots.html. Recommend follow Lynn's advice and contact either a local Herp Vet or Dr. Frye. IMO the priority is to get this frog some nourishment ASAP, good luck !