More eating troubles

[Mallowolf]

Ok so I posted here two weeks ago when I first got my baby albino pacman frog Miles. He's been eating about everyday (sometimes every other day). He stopped eating three days ago and i'm getting worried again. I've been weighing him everyday, when he last ate he weighed 15 grams and today he weighs 16 grams, so he isn't loosing weight. I havent seen any poop in about a week and I just gave him a honey bath but he didnt poop (but he doesn't have a hard lump on his side either) The only thing that I can think of is two days ago the temps were pretty low, so I used a 50 watt basking bulb (that I already had) with a dimmer just until I got out of work and got a 50 watt red bulb. The temps were at about 86 F and humidity was around 60. Temps have been perfect since I got the new bulb.

1. Size of enclosure *10 gallon*
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences *just him*
3. Humidity *usually between *75-80% *
4. Temperature *right now (night) 78 F, mornings 82 F *
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish *tap water that has been treated with reptisafe*
6. Materials used for substrate *eco earth*
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. *A big fake plant, a log, and water dish*
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source *mostly eats night crawlers now, but has eaten crickets and a fish*
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) *calcium 2 times a week vitamins 1 time a week*
10. Lighting *50 watt red bulb with dimmer*
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure *heatpad stuck to the side of the tank is on 24/7 and the bulb turns off at night*
12. When is the last time he/she ate *3 days ago he ate a big piece of a night crawler*
13. Have you found poop lately *about a week a ago*
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog *he's just a baby, not sure how young. Only weighs 16 grams*
16. How long have you owned him/her *2 weeks*
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred *captive bred*
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats *offered everyday, mostly nightcrawlers. Sometimes crickets. He also ate a fish once*
19. How often the frog is handled *only to weigh him before he eats*
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area *low traffic*
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) *I spot clean the poop and change water daily/every other day*

[Hypnotic]

Don't weigh the frog before it eats, this causes unnecessary stress. If you really want to keep track of his weight, weigh him before or after baths.
Try to avoid handling him at all unless for maintenance or baths. Are 3 sides blocked out on your tank? I had problems with both my babies and Griffthegreat advised me to put them into critter keepers with 4 sides blocked out. My babies ate the very same night. Also, don't feed it fish, fish can contain alot of parasites compared to other feeders.

[Lija]

conditions are spot on, except i'd use smaller tank and cover 3 sides of the enclosure, not eating for 3 days is not time to stress out yet but you are doing well by worrying. temp/humidity drop may impacted on the way his appetite is, but i think it more has to do with a fact you're handling him, no need to weight a frog at all. I do weight everybody once a month, but it is only because i have geckos for whom weight is important factor, esp for breeding females and babies, so one day a month for me is a cleaning/checking weights/baths. it is the whole day project may i say

anyhow- can you post a pic from top and eye level? do not take him out of the enclosure to take pics or handle at all and see how his feeding is going. you said there are no hard lumps anywhere right? if you manage to take pcs inside tank it is ok

hypnotic - covering 4 sides is what i advise too, but 3 sides should work here i hope, it is nice to see a frog it doesn't seem to be too bad yet.

edit - re read your post, you're taking him out, taking weight readings, then offer food, did i get that part? then it is the most likely reason for him not eating.

[DVirginiana]

There's really no reason to weigh the frog. They retain so much water that you probably wouldn't be able to tell if the frog was actually gaining weight or not. Being taken out and weighed every day is probably stressing it out and causing it not to eat; don't do that more than once a week (it's not necessary at all, but once a week shouldn't be stressful enough to do damage).

Fish are okay as treats, but only frozen ones. Silversides can be bought in packs from most Petsmart/Petco. But live ones are big parasite risks, and many species contain a chemical called thiaminase that is harmful for reptiles/amphibians.

[Mallowolf]

As you can see I have 2 sides covered with paper, the third is covered with a heatpad. I've been taking him out to eat, so while he was in the feeding container i would weigh him, but i'll start trying to feed him in his cage. And like I said, I checked both of his sides for hard lumps and he's jut squishy so I don't think he's impacted.

I really appreciate everybody's help!

[Hypnotic]

Mallowolf, I'm sorry if my eyes are seeing something wrong, but do you have the digital reading part of your thermometer inside your tank? If you do, please remove it and attach it to the outside, electronics and humidity don't mix well, and while the probe can stand the humidity, the digital part of the thermometer could malfunction or short circuit when coming into contact with water/humidity. If it's attached to the back, please ignore my comment, it's just really hard to see in the picture.

Edit: I checked the pictures closely and it seems to be inside the tank, I'm not familiar with the brand so I'm not sure how waterproof it is, but you'd really be off better attaching it to the outside.

[danfrog]

How big is ths little one? You said baby, if its under ide say 2.5 inches the 10 gallon might be too big. But I also noticed you have a lot of hiding places. So that may not be the case. Where is your heatpad in relation to your thermometer? If your thermometer is stuck to the same side as your heat pad your temps are off. I can't really tell in the pics.

[Mallowolf]

The thermometer is in the tank, there is a probe that reads the "outside temperature" which is stuck to the back side in the middle of the tank (just above the eco earth). The actual thermometer itself measures the "indoor temperature" (which is always alittle high because the light is so close to it.) and it also measures the indoor humidity, so the actual thermometer has to be in the tank (but it's water proof)

He's probably about maybe 2 inches long, but he did eat for me until the other day.

[danfrog]

So the actual probe is in the middle of the tank two inches above the ssubstrate right?

[Mallowolf]

That's right.

I'm just hoping it's because I was handling him too much and there's nothing actually wrong with him

[Hypnotic]

I don't think you need to be worried just yet. It's good that you are but forget about sickness for the time being if there aren't any other signals, and see how the next few days go.

[danfrog]

Shouldn't handle at all really. Once a week for me and that's just to move Mojo into a soak tub, few seconds max.

[Mallowolf]

Well I just tried feeding him again, this time in the tank and he wouldn't eat again. Should I try again before I go to sleep tonight?

[Mentat]

You have gotten good advice and hopefully diminished the frog handling. Still need to know what is the frog's length from snout to vent (SVL)? If smaller than 3 in. a 10 gallon tank is too big for it and might also be contributing to frog stress. Good luck !

[Mallowolf]

I don't wanna take him out and stress him further, but he is definitely smaller then 3 inches. Do you think he would just stop eating all of a sudden because of his cage? It hasn't changed since I got him. If I get a critter keeper do you think moving him in there will stress him out even more? And what size critter keeper should I get? I'm sorry for all of the questions, I feel kind of guilty that I didn't keep him in a smaller cage in the first place :/

[danfrog]

Was he eating good before the last three days? If so its probably the handling. I don't know about getting a critter keeper. I'm thinking more along the lines of some sort of divider you can place in the enclosure. If you can put a divider to block off say 25 percent maybe 30. Make sure its not see through. Also you can block off the front side too to till your frog is back on track. I'm doing this for my new froglet right now. Three completely covered sides, and the front is half covered.

[Mallowolf]

Yes he was eating just about everyday/ every other day. I'll look into getting a divider tomorrow. Thanks for all your help! I'll keep you guys updated!

[danfrog]

Hold off on the divider if he was eating good before. Give him a bit to settle down from your handling and see if he starts esting

[Hypnotic]

I agree with Danfrog, the reaction your seeing is probably due to the handling and the size of the tank. But the size of the tank might be minimal stress, but added up with the handling, it was too much.
I'l give you a personal example, on the first day I brought my babies home, one of them ate from tongs and the other refused.
The next few days food was still refused. Once I moved the frogs to smaller enclosures with all four sides blocked off, both of them ate the very same night.

[Mallowolf]

Ok so I didn't buy a divider. I also covered the front of the tank as well but he still wouldn't eat. before he stopped eating he ate fine in a separate container but I never fed him in his actual tank. could that have something to do with it?

Anyone have any other ideas? :/