Tongue issue?

[GrifTheGreat]

Carlos is correct about the surface area for the frog's enclosure.

As for a swollen tongue. That can be caused from the frog biting its own tongue while feeding. If you are offering only crickets then that is only good as a staple, but is not a very nutritious diet even if you use supplements. Night Crawlers are far more nutritious and are easily digested.

If the tongue is swollen then it is possibly infected and would need antibiotic treatments from a Herp Vet. I'm not sure if a few antibiotic baths would treat an oral infection like this.

[Lija]

remove a heat pad under your tank immediately! and stop using all supplements until we'll figure things out.

before advising on anything else i want to clarify a few things :
- diet- you are saying roaches and pinkies- please describe that, how often he is eating roaches and how often pinks
- supplements - what and how exactly are you using?
- maintenance- do you do substrate changes and how often
as well i'd like to see a few more clear pics: frog from a top, from a side and front (eye level)

[LG89]

Having had the frog looked at by some experienced keepers of amphibians at my local reptile and amphibian pet shop. They have told me that it definitely doesn't look like an infection - no sign of any sort or residue or smell coming from the tongue doesn't look "swollen" just sticks out more than normal...in answer to the enclosure size - I have a faunarium which has a surface area recommended by Carlos above rectangle instead of square but same surface area roughly which was filled with cocoa substrate and he just didn't seem to eat in there so I moved him back to a smaller tub. Will slightly increase the temperature, reduce the humidity and also get my hands on some nightcrawlers. His stale diet is dubia roaches dusted every other feeding with calc d3 and every third dusting I while use nutrbol vitamin supplement instead. Only introduced pinks recently to give him a bit more fat and calcium due to being worried about the tongue issue. For Lija - I feed dubias whenever he's hungry really so every couple of days at the most I don't leave them in with him longer than a night so if he hasn't eaten by the morning which isn't usually the case I know he probably isn't hungry and like I said the pinks have only been a couple recently due to being worried. Unfortunately I can't take away the heat source as the room temperature wouldn't be high enough where I live to keep him happy. I change the substrate regularly every time I see that he defecates I change the substrate as its only paper towels at the moment. I can get him back in the large enclosure with the cocoa substrate if you think that would help at all. Ill go and take some pictures like you requested and post up shortly.


Thanks for all of the helpful responses guys. Great welcoming to the forum to get so much support and concern for the frog that matches my own.


Luke

[Namio]

Hi Luke,

How long have you had the frog and when did you first started to dust its food with Calcium? The dropping of the jaw may be caused by the lack of Calcium during the frogs developmental period also known as Metabolic Bone Disease. If this is the case, you need to provide and incorporate additional Calcium to your frog.

[GrifTheGreat]

This is MBD(Metabolic Bone Disease). The frog is not recieving a well balanced diet. Calcium+D3 will halt the progression of the disease, but the jaw may never fully close if the frog has stopped growing.

Drooping lower jaw is the first sign. The excessive droop appears that this frog has been suffering from MBD for a while. If not MBD then this frog has previously suffered from a jaw injury.

You need to start feeding this frog every other day and dust the feeders with Calcium+D3 every other feeding. Use multivitamins no more than once per week and not on the same day as a calcium dusting.

[Lija]

no offense, but I'm starting to loose my patience when i see something about "experienced frog keepers from a pet store", sorry.

Luke, you are keeping your frog in a small enclosure, on wet papertowels with a heat pad attached to the bottom, take the heat pad out asap and stick it to the side or find some other way to heat the enclosure. what you're doing is very dangerous to a frog.

based on last pictures it does seem like MBD, there is only one way to confirm is to take him to a vet for Xrays, but i suspect it might be a bit different story as well, i goggled the vitamins you're using, they contain 20% Ca, traces of vit D3 and very low on other vitamins. would you please check the contents of your bottle and post it here ( or pic would do), i couldn't find a reliable source for that. too much Ca with luck of vit d3 and other vitamins can lead to opposite of what you're trying to achieve, too much of anything is no good, it is all about balance.

you're saying you have a frog for 4 months, how big is a frog right now?

so let's figure out what are these your vitamins, and if i were you i would schedule an appointment with a vet to figure out if that is MBD and continue accordingly.

[Mentat]

no offense, but I'm starting to loose my patience when i see something about "experienced frog keepers from a pet store", sorry.
...

Don't loose your patience Lija, it's the way of the world !

Luke: After seeing the last set of pics agree with Colleen/Jerrod and Lija on possible MBD and it needs to be dealt with or ruled out by a veterinary. You are getting good advice here and maybe it contradicts other local sources, still, your frog is not well and needs help... now !

[LG89]

no offense, but I'm starting to loose my patience when i see something about "experienced frog keepers from a pet store", sorry.

Luke, you are keeping your frog in a small enclosure, on wet papertowels with a heat pad attached to the bottom, take the heat pad out asap and stick it to the side or find some other way to heat the enclosure. what you're doing is very dangerous to a frog.

based on last pictures it does seem like MBD, there is only one way to confirm is to take him to a vet for Xrays, but i suspect it might be a bit different story as well, i goggled the vitamins you're using, they contain 20% Ca, traces of vit D3 and very low on other vitamins. would you please check the contents of your bottle and post it here ( or pic would do), i couldn't find a reliable source for that. too much Ca with luck of vit d3 and other vitamins can lead to opposite of what you're trying to achieve, too much of anything is no good, it is all about balance.

you're saying you have a frog for 4 months, how big is a frog right now?

so let's figure out what are these your vitamins, and if i were you i would schedule an appointment with a vet to figure out if that is MBD and continue accordingly.

Hi Lija,

Please don't lose patience at least not with me I may have not had the practices spot on but like I say as far as I was made aware everything I was doing was "right". After all the quote at the bottom of your sig has to apply and I must say I completely agree with it! As in my last post it has happened all of a sudden and doesn't always appear as bad as it looks in the most recently posted pictures. I'm not at home right now but am getting my partner to send me a picture of the back of the nutrobol tub to post for you. I picked up the frog towards the end of March and I'd guess it has gone up in size 4x. Again I'm not at home but I would say he is around 3" from the centre of his mouth to vent if that is how you measure size. I appreciate the advice of every one on here thank you so much! In the meantime is there any supplements you use that you could recommend and are available in the UK for me to go out and replace what I have if it is insufficient. This is my first amphibian however I do keep Crested geckos and a Chahoua which have always had their live food dusted with these supplements and have had no issues but I understand their staple is a MRP which provides everything so if these are not amazing its not so important to them as it is for my pacman to rely on fully as he does.

Luke

[LG89]

This is MBD(Metabolic Bone Disease). The frog is not recieving a well balanced diet. Calcium+D3 will halt the progression of the disease, but the jaw may never fully close if the frog has stopped growing.

Drooping lower jaw is the first sign. The excessive droop appears that this frog has been suffering from MBD for a while. If not MBD then this frog has previously suffered from a jaw injury.

You need to start feeding this frog every other day and dust the feeders with Calcium+D3 every other feeding. Use multivitamins no more than once per week and not on the same day as a calcium dusting.

This "drooping of the jaw" has come on all of a sudden it wasn't gradual, the pictures I just posted are when it looks at its worst - however it doesn't droop that far the vast majority of the time. Whilst watching him it is sometimes almost fully closes then droops a bit and the tongue shows, then a bit further till it gets to the stage in the pictures. Then all of a sudden the tongue will go back in and the mouth closes up substantially. Tomorrow I will go out and get whatever is needed to help counteract what has happened here!

Luke

[LG89]

Hi Luke,

How long have you had the frog and when did you first started to dust its food with Calcium? The dropping of the jaw may be caused by the lack of Calcium during the frogs developmental period also known as Metabolic Bone Disease. If this is the case, you need to provide and incorporate additional Calcium to your frog.

Hi Namio,

As i said in my first post MBD was my initial thought but it seemed to happen all of a sudden and like I have said I have always dusted with the Cal D3 and Nutrobol. Since then I have upped the amount I have been providing but I think like others have said its probably a balance issue. I really hope I can address this as it really does break my heart to know that I have caused this despite following what I was made aware were the right practices.

Luke