Wild Caught Questions

[demon amphibians]

[QUOTE=Hypnotic;189780]I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say don't do it, it's like playing russian roulette with your frogs life. There is a good reason we keep the animals that some of us eat in farms. Would you eat a cow that has been grazing behind a highway, inhaling toxic fumes and eating the trash besides the road? Remember, animals travel, be it by jumping, running or flying, you have no idea where they have been.

I could not disagree more with this statement.

Wild animals are 10 times safer to eat then farm raised animals. In fact the farming of animals produce several times the amount of polution as all motor vehichles in the world. I can show you info that will turn anyone who see it into vegitarians. look up on youtube how hotdogs are made, just for starts. cattle that are allowed to rome free ranges are much safer and healthier to eat. wild birds are also much safer then farm raised chickens. Cows, chickens, and pigs are all feed there own droppings, a simple chemical everyone knows about that is found in animal dung is ammonia that is just one of several. just that alone makes the quailty of the meat worse then a wild animal. cows are very smart and picky eaters they wouldnt just walk up and eat a piece of trash on the road. however it would eat anything if it was given unfavorable living environment such as on your average farm. Also breathing car exhust is much cleaner then the air the average cow is breathing on a farm. I know this is off topic and i apologise if i am coming across rude. But i really want to inform you of the truth because this is the leading cause of polution in the world and one of the reasons many species of frogs are extinct.

true, you dont know where the insects have been but that doesnt mean they are anymore dangerous then a captive breed insect. you just have to be selective of where you catch them from. be smart.

[COOCOpUcHoo]

Thank you everyone

[DVirginiana]

@Maverick: lol, don't worry. Store-bought crickets still have plenty of diseases. Anything living in such close quarters will have disease and parasites. I'd recommend that you get more experience with caring for frogs before you try w/c feeders (I actually don't recommend w/c at all, but definitely not at this point for you). That way you have a better idea of what can be harmful, and you'd be able to spot and fix problems more quickly.

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Well, I'm vegan, so I'm probably full of pesticides from all the store-bought vegetables I consume... lol
Really though, most pesticides are surface-sprayed and are not absorbed into the plant. You can get rid of the overwhelming majority by thorough washing. Which is what you should do before giving any to your feeders.

LOL Anyone who thinks mass feeder suppliers feed their crickets veggies is living in a fantasy world! They feed them a dry, processed, nutrient substance that looks a lot like cardboard, is cheap, and can store for years. So, no, they probably aren't exposed to more pesticides than anything you find outside.

Okay... Who has neighbors that spray herbicides on their driveway? Who has neighbors that may wash their dog outside, washing the soap and flea powder into the grass? You think a grasshopper can't eat something in your neighbors yard then fly 20 feet into your yard? We're not just talking about heavy-duty agricultural pesticides. For goodness sake, we tell people to wash their hands before handling their frogs so that nothing we've gotten on our hands on a daily basis can harm them.
It's just... not accurate... to pretend like there is no chance the bugs in their yard have come into contact with something that can harm their frog. Yes, if you're in a particularly rural area, or especially careful about what you harvest you might get lucky for a very long time. Maybe whatever is on the bugs isn't enough of a concentration to harm your frog. But the bottom line is that the risk of chemical contamination is always there, and it is not there for most store-bought feeders. It's your choice to take that risk, but pretending that it isn't there is just misleading to others.

[GrifTheGreat]

This has been covered so many times that it kind of gets repetative. The same reasons are giver for why not to do this as in every other thread over this subject.

One main parasite that locusts and grasshopper will carry are Tapeworms. You have no way of knowing they have them unless you cut them open. Just a warning. The likelyhood of getting one with a Tapeworm isn't very high, but is still a serious risk.

Everyone has pretty much covered this.

[Namio]

Pesticides can be an issue but unless you live in a farming community where large amounts of pestesides are used the chances of you encountering this are very low. Like i said before it is ok to be overly cautious and there are dangers everywhere but you will encounter just has many hazard feeding store bought food items. Think about people who culture there own feeders? Crickets, roaches, you name it all, eat veggies. Think about it. What do you feed your cultured insects? Store bought veggies right? even organic veggies can have pesticides on them. And i will promise you this the large scale cricket breeders where pet stores get there crickets from do not feed organic veggies to there crickets before they sell them. What i am saying is that your attempts to prevent feeding pesticide riden insects to your frogs may result in you feeding more of it to them through your captive breed insects. You can rinse your store bought veggies with water all day long and it still wont remove all the pesticides. Thats why you have to use a special rinse to soak your veggies in and that stuff is 60 bucks for 20oz. It is really the only way to have 100% pesticide free food for your feeders which your frogs will be eating.

Wild animals are 10 times safer to eat then farm raised animals. In fact the farming of animals produce several times the amount of polution as all motor vehichles in the world. I can show you info that will turn anyone who see it into vegitarians. look up on youtube how hotdogs are made, just for starts. cattle that are allowed to rome free ranges are much safer and healthier to eat. wild birds are also much safer then farm raised chickens. Cows, chickens, and pigs are all feed there own droppings, a simple chemical everyone knows about that is found in animal dung is ammonia that is just one of several. just that alone makes the quailty of the meat worse then a wild animal. cows are very smart and picky eaters they wouldnt just walk up and eat a piece of trash on the road. however it would eat anything if it was given unfavorable living environment such as on your average farm. Also breathing car exhust is much cleaner then the air the average cow is breathing on a farm. I know this is off topic and i apologise if i am coming across rude. But i really want to inform you of the truth because this is the leading cause of polution in the world and one of the reasons many species of frogs are extinct.

true, you dont know where the insects have been but that doesnt mean they are anymore dangerous then a captive breed insect. you just have to be selective of where you catch them from. be smart.

You are right on many of the things you've said, but the practices of farmed mammals for human consumption is quite irrelevant and different from commercially available amphibian diets. Saying wild animals (specifically you meant birds and mammals) are much safer for [human]consumption than farm cow, chicken, etc. does not necessarily draw a parallel line next to farm raised crickets, roaches, nightcrawlers, etc.

You did bring up an excellent point in chemically contaminated vegetables. One simply way to solve this problem is to peel off the surface/skin of vegies such as carrots, apples, potatoes, etc. before you serve it to your crickets, etc. By doing so you can pretty much get rid of most if not all pesticide that was on the vegetable/fruit.

[DVirginiana]

I just realized that I replied to someone who isn't even on this thread earlier... What I get for having multiple windows open on the same forum I suppose...

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

OK,
Your best bet is to breed your own feeders.
The easiest feeders I know of for all kinds of frogs except dart frogs are Dubia roaches unless you are in a state that forbids it. like florida
and they don't stink like crickets do. and all you need to house them is a plastic bin.

[nirotorin]

Yep peeling, that's the ultimate solution. I don't always do it though. Sometimes it just seems too uptight. Same reason I feed my animals the occasional wild caught insect. I mean wild insects seem to be pretty ok for wild herps. Idunno I really think it's one of those things that isn't as big a deal as we make it sometimes.

That grasshopper tapeworm thing kind of freaks me out though.

[demon amphibians]

there are many good points in this thread. being cautious is a good very good practice. I will be honest 99% of the diet i feed to my frogs are insects that i personally breed. And i do believe this is the safest method. I just don't have the time to prob around and find bugs. not to mention i live in southern California and i am not sure i would trust any insects in this area. But where i lived in idaho there are several thousand acers of land that are not being used by people or civilization of any sort those are the places i would find wild insects to feed to my frogs. And if you do decide to use wild caught insects as feeders i would recommend avoiding area's with lakes and streams. this will reduce the chances of encountering parasites, poisons of all sorts, and of course the very dangerous chytrid.

And DVirginia, I spoke the to largest cricket breeder in the area. this guy sells to all major pet stores in the area. I was asking tips on breeding them and he said he feeds them veggies that a local farmer gives him that aren't up to standards to sell for human consumption. Not saying all breeders do this just saying the largest one in my area does. I even asked him if he has had issues with pesticides and he said he has had problems in the past.
And Namio, You are for sure right about removing the outer layer of the veggies being fed. It is a good practice to do for yourself as well. I know that farmed mammals and birds are irrelevant to breeding insects i was just trying to explain two different points and kind of got side tracked. I was making no parallel between the two subjects. although it may have seemed like it. I was in fact trying to explain that an animals movement Habits have little effect on whether they are safe to eat or not but i neglected the fact that this can not be compared to wild insects.
good posts everyone.

[DVirginiana]

And DVirginia, I spoke the to largest cricket breeder in the area. this guy sells to all major pet stores in the area. I was asking tips on breeding them and he said he feeds them veggies that a local farmer gives him that aren't up to standards to sell for human consumption. Not saying all breeders do this just saying the largest one in my area does. I even asked him if he has had issues with pesticides and he said he has had problems in the past.

Sounds like you have a quality cricket breeder in your area then. Honestly, his product is probably overall healthier for feeding the veggies. Most of the feeders , crickets and roaches, I have ordered from breeders have been fed (and even come with sometimes) the processed-cardboard-nutrient-meal stuff. That's also what they feed them in every petstore in my area except one very small private one that is pricey, but they keep their animals in such good conditions that I'd consider buying a pet from there instead of a breeder. idk for sure what they feed them there, but the crickets have the darker look I associate with natural foods. I mean, lighting is even changed for albinos and nocturnal critters in their place-- who cares if you want a closer look the animal is asleep! lol

I'll be honest, I've had to feed w/c prey to rescues before. When I have to rehab a slug-eating snake, I have no choice. I don't know how they are as a frog food-source, but I've had one experiment slug for almost a year now (happiest slug in the country...), so I try to keep a small veggie-fed colony since they live long enough to detox. Actually got to use it last winter when I got a call about a redbelly snake that had been attacked by a cat.

My general opinion about w/c feeders is that "If you have to ask, you should avoid it". Kind of like, if you don't have the resources and experience to feel confident in feeding stuff from your yard, it's probably not worth the risk. Haha, can't tell you how many times I've felt guilty for coming in from a fall herping trip and my garters going nuts because they smell salamanders but can't eat them. The runoff in our area is so contaminated it's made the cats sick before (and we live in the middle of nowhere, but it's mountainous sooo...) so no way I'm feeding anything from there to my cold-blooded babies.

[demon amphibians]

My general opinion about w/c feeders is that "If you have to ask, you should avoid it". Kind of like, if you don't have the resources and experience to feel confident in feeding stuff from your yard, it's probably not worth the risk. Haha, can't tell you how many times I've felt guilty for coming in from a fall herping trip and my garters going nuts because they smell salamanders but can't eat them. The runoff in our area is so contaminated it's made the cats sick before (and we live in the middle of nowhere, but it's mountainous sooo...) so no way I'm feeding anything from there to my cold-blooded babies.

I could not agree more. I firmly believe that in order to feed wild prey you must be a seasoned frog owner. And like you said if there are uncertainties then it is best to avoid doing it all together.

[Lija]

another "wild prey thread"? it has been discussed so many times already.
- re to "who knows what crickets's been feeding on in the breeding facility" - you don't feed insects right off the store, you keep for a few days at least and gut load them, this way you minimize possible "who knows what" in their gut and load them with what you want, of course it wont flush all chemicals that might be in their system, but it will minimize the possible amounts by much, besides breeders usually are protecting their colonies and will not feed off contaminated food.
- wild prey is not for "seasoned herp owners", in fact none of these people will feed wild caught prey to their herps, unless it is a last resort and with great caution.
- parasites/bacteria/fungus - guys seriously, do you really want to deal with that, do you realize what does it mean if you have a frog with tapeworms/pinworms/anything else, when you need to hospitalize all your herps, possibly euthanize if you have something like mycobacteria that might be zoonotic. The warmer climate you're living in the worse situation is.
- well and of course chemicals from outside unless you live in a middle of nowhere.

we can discuss wild caught prey topic endlessly but all i have to say - we operate on risk factors here, nobody is saying all these possibilities will occur, but the chances are, do you want to take them? and why?