Wild Caught Questions

[COOCOpUcHoo]

So it is summer and my yard is filled with hundreds of grasshoppers. I do believe my Pacman would love them, but i read the post about wild frogs, and i don't want to get my pacman sick. The only problems is, i had 2 firebelly toads. For half the year (spring and summer) i would only feed them grasshoppers and crickets i caught outside. They lived for five years (i was around 7 years old at the time and i had no lighting and kept them in the basement which was probably 65 degrees) which was a good amount of time for the conditions they were in. I even managed to get my female pregnant by accident. So for five years i fed my fire bellies only wild caught food for half of each year. Can i do the same with my packy?

sorry if this was confusing

[danfrog]

Nope. Nothing wild.

[DVirginiana]

Firebellies are supposed to live 10-15 years. You just said that the reason they didn't reach near that life expectancy was the conditions they were kept in, and that includes feeding them wild caught bugs. It's understandable because of your age at the time, but when a pet situation ends badly like that, you should avoid doing any of the same things again.

[nirotorin]

They would be great food if you could be sure they were pesticide free, which they probably are (considering they're alive).

You could keep them, and feed them clean veggies for a week, or two. Kind of like a quarantine, or cleansing cycle.

You could also just catch a bunch, and breed them yourself. From what I've read they aren't that difficult to breed, and raise.

[demon amphibians]

They would be great food if you could be sure they were pesticide free, which they probably are (considering they're alive).

You could keep them, and feed them clean veggies for a week, or two. Kind of like a quarantine, or cleansing cycle.

You could also just catch a bunch, and breed them yourself. From what I've read they aren't that difficult to breed, and raise.

I agree, grass hoppers make an excellent feeder for pacs. I fed my Pac nothing but grasshoppers during the summer months and it lived for over 12 years. It would have lived longer if i wouldnt have left home and left it in the care of my neglectful brother. None the less what you need to be careful of is where you get your grasshoppers. pesticides are the big concern in this case. If pesticides are used in your area avoid using grasshoppers. I always say this when it comes to feeding wild caught insects. It is always good to be cautious of what you feed from the wild. But it is ok to feed your frogs grasshoppers if they are caught in a pesticide free enviornment.

[COOCOpUcHoo]

Thanks to all for the information. I KNOW that my yard has no pesticides. The last time we used any fertilizers was probably 2 years ago. I do no know if i can do that 1-2 week cleansing cycle, I will stick with crickets store bought. But is it possible that my frog will develop an immune system from feeding him/her wild caught grasshoppers?

[DVirginiana]

Thanks to all for the information. I KNOW that my yard has no pesticides. The last time we used any fertilizers was probably 2 years ago. I do no know if i can do that 1-2 week cleansing cycle, I will stick with crickets store bought. But is it possible that my frog will develop an immune system from feeding him/her wild caught grasshoppers?

The thing is, you don't know if the BUGS in your yard have no pesticides. They could have come from down the street, or chemicals could have washed into your yard from somewhere else when it rains.

No, pesticides have nothing to do with an immune system. It's not like a virus where you develop antibodies, it's like eating rat poison. The more poison you eat, the more damage is done. There's no 'getting used to it'.

Stick with feeding him store-bought. Just because they look healthy does NOT mean they are pesticide free! Insects are often not affected by pesticides like they were intended. Just to clarify, this is NOT immunity; a single animal can't develop immunity to poisons. It is because over hundreds of thousands of generations, genes that allow an insect to function around the poison are naturally selected for, and those few insects pass on their genes much more than those that can't handle the pesticides.

Bottom line is, when you feed anything wild caught there is a risk it will harm your frog no matter how certain you think you are that it is safe, because you don't know where it's been. You can spend just a few dollars a month to buy feeders you know are safe.

[Namio]

I second what DVirgina had said. Frogs will not develop immunity to herbicide or pesticide. What they do is to withstand those toxins until their immunity compromises and eventually they'll die if you kept feeding it food with harmful chemical. Since there's no way we can know for sure whether wild caught insects are chemical free or not, by doing so you are taking a risk on your pet frog's life. Personally (and i believe many others feel the same way), it is not a risk that I'm willing to take.

[Samalander]

FWIW I have fed my pacman wild caught worms, insects, and small animals my cats killed (birds, mice and even baby rats). I have had this frog for over 22 years now

[poison]

FWIW I have fed my pacman wild caught worms, insects, and small animals my cats killed (birds, mice and even baby rats). I have had this frog for over 22 years now

Please tell me what the benefits of doing that is. And how many specimens have you worked with?

[DVirginiana]

FWIW I have fed my pacman wild caught worms, insects, and small animals my cats killed (birds, mice and even baby rats). I have had this frog for over 22 years now

I have a garter snake that has exceeded the captive life expectancy of his species by 50% (average is 8, he's 12) that I unknowingly fed feeders that have been PROVEN as toxic for the first ten years I had him. He's doing great, so clearly a LOT of what I was doing was correct, but I'm not going to recommend what are unquestionably risky feeders to a kid who's just getting into reptiles because it worked for me.
And they are, unquestionably, risky. It's never something I would recommend to a young kid without the resources to really find out what the local pesticide use patterns are.

[COOCOpUcHoo]

I wasn't talking about toxins that he would be immune to, I was talking about disease.

[Hypnotic]

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say don't do it, it's like playing russian roulette with your frogs life. There is a good reason we keep the animals that some of us eat in farms. Would you eat a cow that has been grazing behind a highway, inhaling toxic fumes and eating the trash besides the road? Remember, animals travel, be it by jumping, running or flying, you have no idea where they have been.
The only reason to feed stuff from the wild is because you either can't afford food or are a cheapskate. I think that neither of the forementioned people, should own pets.
The entire reason of keeping pets, is providing the best care for your animal and watching them thrive in the unnatural enviroment we create. So don't mess with the basics. That's my two cents

[demon amphibians]

I wasn't talking about toxins that he would be immune to, I was talking about disease.

(When it comes to disease a frogs immune system is very different from ours. We can build an immunity against many different diseases by contracting it. But in many cases frogs are unable to do that. It may take several generations of a spieces to gain immunities to a diseases introduced to the area. Cytrid is a very dangerous disease that is devastating the frog world. It is spread in water.. You can encounter just as many dieases and parasites from store bought food too. I have heard of several cases of this.)
Pesticides can be an issue but unless you live in a farming community where large amounts of pestesides are used the chances of you encountering this are very low. Like i said before it is ok to be overly cautious and there are dangers everywhere but you will encounter just has many hazard feeding store bought food items. Think about people who culture there own feeders? Crickets, roaches, you name it all, eat veggies. Think about it. What do you feed your cultured insects? Store bought veggies right? even organic veggies can have pesticides on them. And i will promise you this the large scale cricket breeders where pet stores get there crickets from do not feed organic veggies to there crickets before they sell them. What i am saying is that your attempts to prevent feeding pesticide riden insects to your frogs may result in you feeding more of it to them through your captive breed insects. You can rinse your store bought veggies with water all day long and it still wont remove all the pesticides. Thats why you have to use a special rinse to soak your veggies in and that stuff is 60 bucks for 20oz. It is really the only way to have 100% pesticide free food for your feeders which your frogs will be eating.

[demon amphibians]

[QUOTE=Hypnotic;189780]I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say don't do it, it's like playing russian roulette with your frogs life. There is a good reason we keep the animals that some of us eat in farms. Would you eat a cow that has been grazing behind a highway, inhaling toxic fumes and eating the trash besides the road? Remember, animals travel, be it by jumping, running or flying, you have no idea where they have been.

I could not disagree more with this statement.

Wild animals are 10 times safer to eat then farm raised animals. In fact the farming of animals produce several times the amount of polution as all motor vehichles in the world. I can show you info that will turn anyone who see it into vegitarians. look up on youtube how hotdogs are made, just for starts. cattle that are allowed to rome free ranges are much safer and healthier to eat. wild birds are also much safer then farm raised chickens. Cows, chickens, and pigs are all feed there own droppings, a simple chemical everyone knows about that is found in animal dung is ammonia that is just one of several. just that alone makes the quailty of the meat worse then a wild animal. cows are very smart and picky eaters they wouldnt just walk up and eat a piece of trash on the road. however it would eat anything if it was given unfavorable living environment such as on your average farm. Also breathing car exhust is much cleaner then the air the average cow is breathing on a farm. I know this is off topic and i apologise if i am coming across rude. But i really want to inform you of the truth because this is the leading cause of polution in the world and one of the reasons many species of frogs are extinct.

true, you dont know where the insects have been but that doesnt mean they are anymore dangerous then a captive breed insect. you just have to be selective of where you catch them from. be smart.

[COOCOpUcHoo]

Thank you everyone

[DVirginiana]

@Maverick: lol, don't worry. Store-bought crickets still have plenty of diseases. Anything living in such close quarters will have disease and parasites. I'd recommend that you get more experience with caring for frogs before you try w/c feeders (I actually don't recommend w/c at all, but definitely not at this point for you). That way you have a better idea of what can be harmful, and you'd be able to spot and fix problems more quickly.

-------

Well, I'm vegan, so I'm probably full of pesticides from all the store-bought vegetables I consume... lol
Really though, most pesticides are surface-sprayed and are not absorbed into the plant. You can get rid of the overwhelming majority by thorough washing. Which is what you should do before giving any to your feeders.

LOL Anyone who thinks mass feeder suppliers feed their crickets veggies is living in a fantasy world! They feed them a dry, processed, nutrient substance that looks a lot like cardboard, is cheap, and can store for years. So, no, they probably aren't exposed to more pesticides than anything you find outside.

Okay... Who has neighbors that spray herbicides on their driveway? Who has neighbors that may wash their dog outside, washing the soap and flea powder into the grass? You think a grasshopper can't eat something in your neighbors yard then fly 20 feet into your yard? We're not just talking about heavy-duty agricultural pesticides. For goodness sake, we tell people to wash their hands before handling their frogs so that nothing we've gotten on our hands on a daily basis can harm them.
It's just... not accurate... to pretend like there is no chance the bugs in their yard have come into contact with something that can harm their frog. Yes, if you're in a particularly rural area, or especially careful about what you harvest you might get lucky for a very long time. Maybe whatever is on the bugs isn't enough of a concentration to harm your frog. But the bottom line is that the risk of chemical contamination is always there, and it is not there for most store-bought feeders. It's your choice to take that risk, but pretending that it isn't there is just misleading to others.

[GrifTheGreat]

This has been covered so many times that it kind of gets repetative. The same reasons are giver for why not to do this as in every other thread over this subject.

One main parasite that locusts and grasshopper will carry are Tapeworms. You have no way of knowing they have them unless you cut them open. Just a warning. The likelyhood of getting one with a Tapeworm isn't very high, but is still a serious risk.

Everyone has pretty much covered this.

[Namio]

Pesticides can be an issue but unless you live in a farming community where large amounts of pestesides are used the chances of you encountering this are very low. Like i said before it is ok to be overly cautious and there are dangers everywhere but you will encounter just has many hazard feeding store bought food items. Think about people who culture there own feeders? Crickets, roaches, you name it all, eat veggies. Think about it. What do you feed your cultured insects? Store bought veggies right? even organic veggies can have pesticides on them. And i will promise you this the large scale cricket breeders where pet stores get there crickets from do not feed organic veggies to there crickets before they sell them. What i am saying is that your attempts to prevent feeding pesticide riden insects to your frogs may result in you feeding more of it to them through your captive breed insects. You can rinse your store bought veggies with water all day long and it still wont remove all the pesticides. Thats why you have to use a special rinse to soak your veggies in and that stuff is 60 bucks for 20oz. It is really the only way to have 100% pesticide free food for your feeders which your frogs will be eating.

Wild animals are 10 times safer to eat then farm raised animals. In fact the farming of animals produce several times the amount of polution as all motor vehichles in the world. I can show you info that will turn anyone who see it into vegitarians. look up on youtube how hotdogs are made, just for starts. cattle that are allowed to rome free ranges are much safer and healthier to eat. wild birds are also much safer then farm raised chickens. Cows, chickens, and pigs are all feed there own droppings, a simple chemical everyone knows about that is found in animal dung is ammonia that is just one of several. just that alone makes the quailty of the meat worse then a wild animal. cows are very smart and picky eaters they wouldnt just walk up and eat a piece of trash on the road. however it would eat anything if it was given unfavorable living environment such as on your average farm. Also breathing car exhust is much cleaner then the air the average cow is breathing on a farm. I know this is off topic and i apologise if i am coming across rude. But i really want to inform you of the truth because this is the leading cause of polution in the world and one of the reasons many species of frogs are extinct.

true, you dont know where the insects have been but that doesnt mean they are anymore dangerous then a captive breed insect. you just have to be selective of where you catch them from. be smart.

You are right on many of the things you've said, but the practices of farmed mammals for human consumption is quite irrelevant and different from commercially available amphibian diets. Saying wild animals (specifically you meant birds and mammals) are much safer for [human]consumption than farm cow, chicken, etc. does not necessarily draw a parallel line next to farm raised crickets, roaches, nightcrawlers, etc.

You did bring up an excellent point in chemically contaminated vegetables. One simply way to solve this problem is to peel off the surface/skin of vegies such as carrots, apples, potatoes, etc. before you serve it to your crickets, etc. By doing so you can pretty much get rid of most if not all pesticide that was on the vegetable/fruit.

[DVirginiana]

I just realized that I replied to someone who isn't even on this thread earlier... What I get for having multiple windows open on the same forum I suppose...