Does anyone give feeder frogs to Pacmans?

[parathalyn]

This might not be a popular thread topic...but...

Has anyone ever tried feeding small frogs or toads to Pacman/Horned Frogs? Or, know what species someone would use as feeder frogs/toads?

I'm curious because other frogs are the main diet of most horned frog species in the wild. I've also heard several people caution against keeping Surinam Horned Frogs because there's no way to do it without feeding it other frogs...but no one has actually kept one or knows what frogs to feed them...not to mention how to avoid parasites or toxicity issues when feeding small frogs to big frogs.

[danfrog]

Other frogs may be the main food source in the wild. The reasons they eat other frogs is that other frogs are available. There are much better food sources in captivity like worms. That's one reason frogs in captivity live a good while longer than wild ones.

[Hypnotic]

I agree on this, I've heard from a person that he feeds hamsters to his pacman. Personally, I don't like the idea. Has the same meat as a mouse, only costs alot more and your killing off someones potential pet when you could be feeding it something that is commonly accepted as bred food. I look at frogs the same way.
However, if it would be a cornuta that only eats frogs... feed away. :P

[DVirginiana]

Stay away from feeding frogs. Only reason to do that is with a cornuta or something that won't eat other feeders well. Kind of like when people feed rodents; there's absolutely no benefit to feeding live unless the animal won't take pre-killed. Plus if the frog decides it really likes eating other frogs, you might have trouble getting it to eat other foods that are easier/cheaper when you want it to.

The only way to deal with parasites effectively is freezing (the general time for mice/rats is 3 months, idk if its different for amphibians). But I've known someone who tried that with frogs and said when they thawed they were basically just mush. They may have done it wrong though, idk.

[Lija]

we discussed exactly same thing last week, i have nothing else to add
http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...ght-frogs.html

[parathalyn]

Yes, I agree that there are better or just plain easier things to feed a Pacman. I'm asking more out of curiosity than any plans to actually feed frogs. I'm not finding anything on what types of frogs wild horned frogs eat--just that other frogs are their main source of food in the wild with nothing to support that claim. Likewise with people stating that the only way to keep a Surinam Horned Frogs is to give it feeder frogs...but no one seems to know what a feeder frog would even be. I wouldn't think that any of the readily available frogs at a pet store would make good choices due to toxicity, price, and the fact that they are meant to be pets. So, I've been wondering what do Surinam (or other finicky horned frog) owners/breeders feed their frogs.

[parathalyn]

Thanks for posting the link Lija. I missed that thread.

[parathalyn]

The question of what one feeds a finicky C. cornuta is what lead me to wonder what species one would use as a feeder frog, if needed. Unfortunately, I haven't come across anyone who has successfully kept a C. cornuta, just people saying not to bother with them because their brothers-wifes-cousins-neighbor bought one and it died, or who are very against them being offer in the pet trade for various reasons.

True, but a frog imprinting on one food source is a common issue. I started my big C. cranwelli on dubia and I can't get him to try anything else. Dubia are food to him and everything else is just an annoying intruder in his tank. So, if my dubia colony dies...I might have a problem. I had the same issue with my first bullfrog. He ate two things and ignored everything else. The Xenopus colony we had in a sister lab would occasionally run into issues when they changed food. There would always be several frogs that just refused to eat something new and you had to force feed them.

Yeah...I don't think a mushy thawed frog would be very appetizing. :-X

Stay away from feeding frogs. Only reason to do that is with a cornuta or something that won't eat other feeders well. Kind of like when people feed rodents; there's absolutely no benefit to feeding live unless the animal won't take pre-killed. Plus if the frog decides it really likes eating other frogs, you might have trouble getting it to eat other foods that are easier/cheaper when you want it to.

The only way to deal with parasites effectively is freezing (the general time for mice/rats is 3 months, idk if its different for amphibians). But I've known someone who tried that with frogs and said when they thawed they were basically just mush. They may have done it wrong though, idk.

[parathalyn]

I've heard of people buying hamsters or guinea pigs to feed large snakes that they say won't eat mice or rats...I hadn't heard about people feeding hamsters to Pacman frogs. I agree, it's a bit wasteful to feed a potential pet vs. a feeder...and a bit expensive.

That's what I'm wondering about. What frogs would someone feed a C. cornuta that will only eat frogs? It's looking more and more like an urban myth the more people I ask. No one seems to know what species they eat in the wild or which species available in the US could be used as feeders.

I agree on this, I've heard from a person that he feeds hamsters to his pacman. Personally, I don't like the idea. Has the same meat as a mouse, only costs alot more and your killing off someones potential pet when you could be feeding it something that is commonly accepted as bred food. I look at frogs the same way.
However, if it would be a cornuta that only eats frogs... feed away. :P

[Hypnotic]

Well, honestly, I wouldn't know what species, but I assume it will be one of the most frequent ones sold at conventions and that are most likely really cheap to get.

[DVirginiana]

Probably the same deal as with lizards... They don't generally sell green and brown anoles as 'feeders', but when you see someone with fifty brown anoles for $1.50 each and a deal if you buy in bulk, you know they're selling them to people who have lizard-eating snakes.

[Lija]

Probably the same deal as with lizards... They don't generally sell green and brown anoles as 'feeders', but when you see someone with fifty brown anoles for $1.50 each and a deal if you buy in bulk, you know they're selling them to people who have lizard-eating snakes.

anoles and lizard eating snakes are different story, i'm be doing the same when needed, lizards are being used for some picky kingsnake babies, with mountain kings being probably the most obnoxious. so you try pinkies for just hatched babies, but most are refusing, then you give them lizards to start them eating, eventually moving to lizard scented pinkies and then to nonscented pinkies and only when they are well established on nonscented f/t food you can sell them. that is general rule for snake breeders, you can get not established baby, but none of respectable breeders will sell such a baby to non pros with herps.

[poison]

I believe by "lizard eating snakes" he meant snakes like vine snakes or other species that in my experience will ONLY eat lizards. Most of these species are WC as is. So they more then likely already cary parasites.

[DVirginiana]

anoles and lizard eating snakes are different story, i'm be doing the same when needed, lizards are being used for some picky kingsnake babies, with mountain kings being probably the most obnoxious. so you try pinkies for just hatched babies, but most are refusing, then you give them lizards to start them eating, eventually moving to lizard scented pinkies and then to nonscented pinkies and only when they are well established on nonscented f/t food you can sell them. that is general rule for snake breeders, you can get not established baby, but none of respectable breeders will sell such a baby to non pros with herps.

A secret to getting baby garters to eat is tadpoles. It's often the difference between a FTT baby and a baby that lives. Of course, all these have to be WC since you can't buy pinhead-sized tads at the petstore...

I didn't mean to compare the lizard-eating snakes (or snake-eating snakes for that matter!) to the feeder frog issue here. Just that you can usually tell when someone has collected a bunch of animals to sell as feeders without labeling them as such, whether they're frogs/toads, lizards, or even small snakes. I realize some snakes will only eat those things and take a good bit of work to get on an easier food source, and would probably not survive without eating those prey items for awhile.