EXTREMELY STRANGE WHITE Bull Frog. Input APPRECIATED. What is it?

[ColoredConstrictors]

Caught this guy yesterday... I'm a reptile guy. Own boas and had my first successful breeding for the first time just a week ago. And yesterday me and my cousin were bored at night so we went bull frog hunting and we came across this guy.

I know a little about genetics in reptiles, especially snakes(constrictors) but I have no idea what's going on with this bull frog. I'm hoping to god some of you will chime in and say what I hope you guys will say; that this looks like some type of morph, but to be honest-as I said- I'm no expert when it comes to amphibians.

He doesn't seem like a leucistic to me because his eyes are NOT jet black. In fact his eyes look like any other eyes on an American bull. I can't imagine him being albino because he does have the classic green splotches on his back and especially around his eyes and on the head.

I'm kind of just waiting for one of the experts(you guys) to pop in and give me the bad news; that this is some type of disease or deformity already known to the amphibian community. Because this is the first year I ever attempted breeding boas and for a first time me and my cousin had a massive success. So if this bull were to be expressing some kind of rare genetic trait and we just happened to catch him in the same week that we had our first litter of 27 boas.... I don't know it just seems way to good to be true.

Opinions?

thanks in advance for those of you out there with some input on this. It is EXTREMELY APPRECIATED.
Thanks for looking.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I think that this is a skin condition since the eyes are normal.

[ColoredConstrictors]

I think that this is a skin condition since the eyes are normal.

Thanks for the input. I'll find out for sure if he/she breeds. I don't want to release him back into the wild because he stands out like a sore thumb and I don't think he'd survive long.


I guess it would make sense too because how could he get to this size with that color? Oh well, regardless, I used to keep bull frogs when I was young so he'll live a nice leisurely life. Gonna go hit the bait shop for him today. I haven't owned a bull frog-let alone any frog-in many years, when I was young and dumb. I remember them being virtually garbage machines the way they ate though.


I'll obviously be looking up care sheets in a few hours but off the bat, would you have any recommendations concerning the best nutritional source of food for this guy?


Oh and if it's a skin condition I'd imagine it'd be contagious right? But I have no idea the means of transmission and whether or not other animals such as snakes and lizards would be at risk. Shows how much I know about amphibians these days other than how to catch them.


Thank you so much for your input it's very much appreciated

[GrifTheGreat]

WOW! That is definitely one of a kind. It appears to be leucistic or some other genetic mutation. Normally I do not recommend people take wild specimens for pets but due to his coloring, this guy has a much lower chance of survival. A rarety like this should be in a zoo or something. :-)

I do not personally keep bullfrogs but I do know they need a LOT of tank space. You'll probably end up needing a 100 gallon tank. Heathanne is a good person to ask. I will say that frogs with genetic mutations sometimes have health problems. But on the other hand, bullfrogs are notoriously hardy creatures. Please keep us posted!

[ColoredConstrictors]

WOW! That is definitely one of a kind. It appears to be leucistic or some other genetic mutation. Normally I do not recommend people take wild specimens for pets but due to his coloring, this guy has a much lower chance of survival. A rarety like this should be in a zoo or something. :-)

I do not personally keep bullfrogs but I do know they need a LOT of tank space. You'll probably end up needing a 100 gallon tank. Heathanne is a good person to ask. I will say that frogs with genetic mutations sometimes have health problems. But on the other hand, bullfrogs are notoriously hardy creatures. Please keep us posted!

Thanks so much for the response. Yeah even if its not genetic I'm going to keep him for that very reason; I've seen some nasty common snappers where I got him from, as stated I'm surprised he survived this long, though if it is unfortunately a skin condition that he was not born with but was afflicted by later in life that would explain it. If he was leucistic I would have to assume there is some type of paradox effect at play given his eyes look quite normal in pattern and color.

Either way he'll live out the rest of his life happy in my 7 foot long aquarium that was successfully used to house four Alligator Snappers. Right now I have a 75 gallon I'm setting up for him for the time being. I just want to get him acclimated quick and start putting weight on him because although I would not necessarily call him unhealthy-as he is not sluggish in anyway- he is definitely thinner than I'd like him to be.

i will definitely keep you and anyone else interested posted. Thank you for the feedback.

[Mentat]

Welcome to FF and congrats on your find ! "Caspian" also keeps American Bullfrogs and hopefully will share info with you. I would recommend a 1/3 dry and 2/3 water set-up. This would be a nice project to raise, breed, and then breed back the F1 to this specimen. Good luck !

[Heatheranne]

Hi CC,

What a unique find! I am usually against taking frogs from the wild, but in this case I think you'd be protecting her. She is definitely a food target. Beautiful frog!

I believe she is a female leucistic American bullfrog. This means she is lacking pigment in some areas, but not lacking all melanin as would be in an albino. Very rare find in the wild too.

How long would you estimate her snout to vent?

She will need a 100 gallon or more as an adult with a land area and a filtered pond.

[flybyferns]

Hello again,
Just beautiful!
I wonder if she morphed more quickly?
Is her skin smoother/thinner than you would expect? Appears so ?

She is a lucky girl. Like "Cinderella"
Especially with this species, your snake husbandry experience will be so helpful in caring for her.

If she were mine, I would contact someone at :
Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory | About Us
A researcher there, may really be able to help you understand more about her Leucism.

Lynn

[demon amphibians]

That is very unique. If you could breed those they would be extremely popular. I would pay top dollar for several of them. Does anyone on here think if that frog were to breed the young would have similar coloration?

[Heatheranne]

I think if you bred her with an albino there would be a possibility.

I have a male ... ;D

[ColoredConstrictors]

Hey everyone. At the moment I put her in 55 gallon tank, just the basic necessities for now. I brought her some drift wood to crawl on/under and have some flag stone stacked on one side for her. She's kept in the snake room so she's enjoying 82-85 degree temps with a slight drop off during the night. Most importantly, she's eating like a pig. She didn't hesitate with the couple dozen crickets offered and has small minnows and feeder fish to hunt for is she chooses to do so.

That was my main priority and concern; getting her to eat and putting weight on her as she is skinnier than normal.
in the mean time I'll be preparing the 125 gallon or the 7 footer if I manage to get it from my mothers basement over to my house.

I am also against taking animals from the wild btw. When I say me and my cousin were bullfrog hunting I mean it in a completely recreational, catch and release kind of way as we always do. But I'm not going to lie, I do intend to go back to that lake with regard to finding her a couple breeders. Since if i have any chance of finding het Lucies, it will be from where I found her. I don't like disturbing the wild either but I already have a lot on my hands, a lot of snakes to feed and sell and if I can skip a breeding season by possibly finding a het this year and producing more Lucies the first go round, how can I not help but do that to increase the chances?

All in all, most importantly she's a gem, she's healthy and she's eating so I'm very relieved. When she puts on more weight I will re post updated pictures of her.

That is very unique. If you could breed those they would be extremely popular. I would pay top dollar for several of them. Does anyone on here think if that frog were to breed the young would have similar coloration?

I have no idea what they'd go for I can't find any listed anywhere on the market for sale. And yeah, I can't wait to either prove/disprove this expressed trait to be genetic or not. Been reading up on a lot of breeding guides, but for now and quite a while all I will be focusing on is getting her and keeping her in immaculate health.

thanks for looking everyone and thanks so much for all the input and advice.

[ColoredConstrictors]

I think if you bred her with an albino there would be a possibility.

I have a male ... ;D

being that she is most likely Lucy I think the best possible chances to prove the trait as soon as possible would be with a similar size frog from the same lake as her with hopes that its het Lucy. However I would love to breed it to an albino to make double hets.

beautiful frog you have there thanks for posting.

[ColoredConstrictors]

By the way thanks for the warm welcome from everyone. I've read every post and am taking all advice offered, it's appreciated. Think I'm going to go with Heathers advice with regards to this little girls environment.
thanks everyone.

[Heatheranne]

Great to hear! It sounds like she's been welcomed into a nice home .

Here is a great article about pigments and colors in humans and animals.
http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/7I.html

I've done some further research after being intrigued by your frog. She does not seem to fit the proper leucistic profile. I think she may have a piebald mutation.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piebaldism

I find it amazing that you found her out of all of the bullfrogs there! Truly lucky!

I am doing more research and will update if I can find anything useful for you.

[Heatheranne]

My Bully is technically amelanistic, per my friend Bobby. Meaning, lacking pigment, but he does have yellow coloration.

Albinos are pure white or clear with red eyes. The red we see in their eyes is actually because we can see through to the back of the eyeball because there is no iris color/pigment.

[ColoredConstrictors]

Great to hear! It sounds like she's been welcomed into a nice home .

Here is a great article about pigments and colors in humans and animals.
Animals | Causes of Color

I've done some further research after being intrigued by your frog. She does not seem to fit the proper leucistic profile. I think she may have a piebald mutation.

Piebaldism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I find it amazing that you found her out of all of the bullfrogs there! Truly lucky!

I am doing more research and will update if I can find anything useful for you.

want to know what's even more amazing? My cousin and his friend caught and released it a few days prior before I went back and got it! Amazing.

We came back the next day and he was all "it will be here trust me" where I was all " lets just try and catch some big bullfrogs and get some nice pics because there's no way were going to find that frog again." He had shown me pictures of it and I knew in my bones it would be too damn good to be true for us to find it again, sure enough it was the first frog we came across.

Even though I'm no bullfrog expert I have owned them in the past and at the very least am familiar with their behavior and this one is a cut above the rest intelligence wise. Not surprising as to survive like it did it had to rely on it's intellicect more than other frogs who simply rely on instinct to survive. It sat in this one area of the lake where it was very shallow and clear. I think this frog learned early in life it simply doesn't have camouflage capabilities like the rest of them.

I will read through those articles. Btw, thanks so much for the piebald theory. When I finished reading your post I literally thought "duh, why hadn't that occurred to me."

BecUse if it was a Lucy then it would be a paradox Lucy because some of its genetics are in direct defiance of the luciatic gene(the normal eyes, the green splotches and such). I'm even more excited at the possibility of it being piebald as there is usually a great variation between animals with that gene. Some have less white, some have more white, others have the white distributed in different areas and in different amounts ect.

it just makes a lot more sense that its a pie. For it to be a paradox Lucy would be one in 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00.
statistic alone suggest that it's a pie, so thanks very much for pointing that out. If it is a pie I'd love to see the genetics in combo with blue bullfrogs. White with splotches of blue/blue with splotches of white would be amazing to see

[ColoredConstrictors]

Have you ever bred your frog and proved out its genetics? It is amazing.

[Heatheranne]

Exactly!

I love genetic education. I find it fascinating. After reading up some more I also text'd my buddy. It sparked a great conversation about gene mutations...albinism, amelanism, leucism, piebaldism.

If you could find any other type of mutation in the species you could produce some awesome kids . I'd love to see them if you do.

I've never bred Bully. He's not even a year old yet . He'll be a yr old this fall. He sure calls loud enough for a girlfriend, lol! Echoes right through the water, ha ha!

[Soli]

Lucky you, that's an awesome bullfrog!
I agree it looks like piebaldism

Here's some examples of it in other species:

Ball Python:


Tokay Gecko:


Deer:


Peacocks (the all white one is not pied):

[Adoptedtwins]

Can you update us on her? She is beautiful!