Help! American Green Tree Frog with sore and sollen leg!

[theplassingglory]

Hi everyone! Any and all help would be much appreciated!

My wife and I have had a beautiful female American Green Tree Frog for a few months. She is a healthy and energetic eater with beautiful emerald green color in a 20-gallon tank with a shallow water dish, stick, and fake leafy greens for shade. We spray down the cage once or twice a day with de-chlorinated Brita-filtered tap water. We generally feed her one large, gut-loaded (with lettuce or spinach) cricket a day and watch from a distance until she eats it. She is, like I said, an energetic eater and usually gulps it down within a minute. It's summer in NYC right now and the temps in the cage have been consistently in the high 70s-90s F.

However, after spending a day at my parent's, we returned to find our beloved frog with a little grey sore/blister on her left leg. We weren't sure what it was at first and the next day it looked a little larger. At this point we freaked out and have spent a bunch of time trawling internet forums and websites for helpful information. The Basic Emergency Care page on this site has been a big help.

Basically we put her in a 0.6% salt bath as stated per the basic emergency care page for 15 minutes yesterday and then rubbed Neosporin on the sore spot and after only a day the grey spot/blister seems much improved and smaller. HOWEVER, now her left leg (where the sore is) appears greatly SWOLLEN, at least double or triple the size of the right leg. To me it looks awful! The rest of her body appears at normal size.

She continues to be an energetic eater, definitely isn't lethargic, and continues to have a nice emerald green color.

Can anyone help or recommend anything for the swollen leg? Can I just continue the salt baths and neosporine treatment? Or should I add something else into the mix? Going to the vet unfortunately isn't possible for us at this moment.

I am concerned somehow that the salt bath contributed to the swelling in her leg - like she's retaining the fluid there for some reason. Should I consider just pure spring water baths or even melafix or something like that?

Suggestions, help, advice! We love our little Juney and don't want anything to happen to her. (Especially as we are going on a family vacation/wedding soon, and will have someone else watching her for a while - it'd be great to get her as healed as possible before this!)

[theplassingglory]

I should also mention we have done a deep wash of her cage and now have her "quarantined" and have no substrate down at the moment as we combat this. Normally, we have a reptile/amphibian substrate that is like an astro-terf like thing. It's this stuff: Reptile Carpet » Zoo Med Eco Reptile Terrarium Carpet | PetSmart

[Frogsandlizards24]

Im not an expert so im just going to ask for you to send some pictures of the leg so heatheranne, flybyferns, or some of the other experts can see what the problem is. And one other question, what kind of neosporin did you use? The kind with pain killers in it will kill the frog (it will say PAIN RELIEF next to the neosporin logo) but if you used just the normal original neosporin than thats not the problem.

[theplassingglory]

Definitely got the kind that does NOT have pain relief (I think the deadly active ingredient is Novocaine, yes?). My ointment contains Bacitracin Zinc, Neomycin Sulfate, and Polymyxin B Sulfate - Triple Anti-biotic, in other words.

I will try to post pics later.

[Frogsandlizards24]

Ok so thats not the problem. But here are a list of questions that some forum members have compiled for ill frogs

1-size of enclosure
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
3-humidity
4-temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6-materials used for substrate
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
8-main food source
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often )
10-lighting
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12-when is the last time he ate
13-have you found poop lately
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog
16-how long have you owned him
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
19- about how often the frog is handled
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area

[theplassingglory]

Right, I answered a bunch of these in the original post, but here goes:

1-size of enclosure 20 gallon vertical
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?) Just her
3-humidity Dunno specifically, mist once-twice a day, we live in NYC, fairly humid summers
4-temp high 70s - 90s F
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish we always use brita-filtered dechlorinated tap water for both
6-materials used for substrate see my 2nd post, like a astroturf-thing
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv artificial hanging plant, stick, rock, and plastic water dish
8-main food source crickets
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) nothing official, but i feed the crickets lettuce, spinach, and carrots for 24 hours before i feed her
10-lighting none at the moment besides ambient interior lights, i heard they are nocturnal and don't need lighting like other reptiles and amphibians
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure since it's summer, nothing right now, temps are always in the high 70s, 80s, 90s
12-when is the last time he ate yesterday evening, we feed her 1 large cricket a day more or less
13-have you found poop lately a poop per cricket more or less
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine working on it, won't disturb her until later today
15- how old is the frog not sure, she was from the school i work at, they were using them for behavioral experiments and i took her home afterwards
16-how long have you owned him roughly 2 months
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred don't know, but i'm guessing captive bred since they were ordered bulk for science experiments
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats she hasn't eaten anything but gut-loaded crickets
19- about how often the frog is handled basically never, except lately to quarantine her, put her in the 0.6% salt bath, neosporine
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area relatively low traffic, in a corner of our apartment, we work all day from 6:30am - 5:30pm so it's quiet then, we are in and out of the room of course otherwise


Hope this helps! Again, I will get the pics in a bit!

[Frogsandlizards24]

Ok, the temp shouldnt be in the 90's. thats way too high. It should be 78-80degrees. And you need a humidity gauge to measure the humidity because the humidity should be between 65-75%(thats what i have read in a lot of websites). And with your temp you should definitely not use lighting because thats an unspeakable amount of heat if you put a light, but you actually do need a light when it starts to get colder because they need that heat then. But i still have no idea why your frog is sick though...as i have said, im not an expert, im 12 lol. But i hope your frog feels better!! And i hope one of the real experts help you!

[CJ PELCHER]

Focusing on the issue at hand.

(1) If you used the pain relief neosporin your poisoning your frog. (YOU NEED WITHOUT PAIN RELIEF) Bacitracin is actually used to uthenize frogs. wash your hands prior to handling use latex gloves to handle or if none on your hand keep your hands moist.
(2) quarentine your frog. Remove from enclosure and put it in a smaller tank 5-10 gallons and use MOIST white (design free) paper towels as a substrate. (A basic cricket keeper will work) Make sure its moistened with dechlorinated water. Keeping all those plants and obstructions out of the environment will irritate the wound / swelling. Surround the enclosure with a towel on 3/4 sides to reduce the stress of your beloved one.
(3) yes your temperature if reaches 90s is WAY TO HIGH!! Keep between 65-80 degrees. This frog is not a tropical frog so it does not need as much humidity but if you can maintain it around 60-75%.
(4) provide a photo of your frog/enclure/wound area.
(5) I would provide a basic UVB bulb 13watts. NOT A HEAT BULB!
(6) dust your crickets with calcium (WITH D3) every other feeding. I would also suggest to dust your crickets with vitamins once every other week.

If you have any other questions feel free to private myself/ FLYBYFERNS/HEATHERANNE for faster response time.

[eponine]

Ok, so this is the original OP, having trouble with my account and panicking so I created a new one. The thought of poor Juney in pain kills me. I literally feel sick.

Here's pics of Juney today BEFORE we put her in a spring water bath (click for larger?):
Notice her leg is swollen, but not red, or really discolored too badly.


THEN, I put her in a spring water bath for 5 - 10 minutes.


You can see the grey blister has sort of popped and is red now. It looks like the Neosporin worked (?)



But now, after I took her from the spring water bath, her leg looks INFLAMED and RED - it looks so awful and painful!



It looks discolored and red. Why would that be from just a 5 minute water bath?!?! She's currently holed up on her stick curled up. My wife and I feel sick with sadness. Help.

[eponine]

I'm curious about the Bacitracin comment as the original (without pain relief) neosporin also contains it as an active ingredient....

In any case, I did not give Juney Neosporin with pain relief. But what I gave her does contain Bacitracin...I'm a little confused.

[eponine]

Also, the temperature doesn't get into the 90s in the cage but it is around 85. How would I cool it down? It's not near any window or heat source and is just heated in the ambient NYC air. I thought they were from the Southern United States where temperatures would be much hotter?

[Mentat]

The last picture shows a darker color indicative of a bad infection and possible necrosis . Think your frog needs a veterinary now for strong antibiotics and posible surgery to clean wound and infected leg. Try to find one with frog or at least reptile experience. Good luck !

[eponine]

It's so strange to me that the first picture of the leg and the last picture of the leg are a before/after of a 5 minute spring water bath. Why would the bath make it so red? Do you think it revealed the extent of the infection or did it somehow inflame it?

[Frogsandlizards24]

I honestly dont know but maybe it was because the salt in the bath got inside that open wound?

[Frogsandlizards24]

**open sore

[flybyferns]

Hi,

I'm sorry about your frog He has an infection in his leg.

I was reading through the replies ( great replies !) ...I wanted to respond to these answers to your questions :
4-temp high 70s - 90s F
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish we always use brita-filtered dechlorinated tap water for both
6-materials used for substrate see my 2nd post, like a astroturf-thing
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv artificial hanging plant, stick, rock, and plastic water dish
8-main food source crickets
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) nothing official, but i feed the crickets lettuce, spinach, and carrots for 24 hours before i feed her


I saw that Corey addressed all of it ! So I encourage reading it carefully!
Please throw out he astro turf thing as they harbor tons of bacteria! Or- wash it separately ( in the washing machine) ..in HOT water ...alone - no soap - w/ a cap of bleach, rinse rinse rinse... and then soak in de-chlorinated water( using amphibian safe de-chlorinator such as ExoTerra Aquatize ) . It might easier to heave it and get a new one.

ExoTerra Aquatize is an example of a de-chlorinator of which should be used for the frogs soaking dish at all times.

After seeing the photo of your frog...
Carlos is spot on !
Your frog needs a herp vet ! !
This could have possibly started as a puncture wound ? --- ie plastic plants are notorious for this.
Sorry -- sometimes , despite our best intentions these things can happen and our frogs get sick

If you do not have a herp vet?
below is a link to Dr Frye ----you can contact him via email or call . He will need the photos. It would be good if you could add the frog's weight in grams in your email.
( use a food scale). If this is not possible to weigh him .....a body measurement from the tip of his nose to his vent( end of the tailbone will help. If you handle the frog -- be extra careful .... it's best to wear wet, powerless gloves. If you do not have gloves wash and rinse your hands well before handling him. Dampen your hands, as the skin on his leg will extra delicate.

As mention, his 'hospital enclosure" should have plain paper towels as a substrate. ( dampened w/ de-chlor water)

http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html

The neo will help ---but he likely needs a more systemic antibiotic. The vet will advise you how to proceed from here.

Feed her well ! Dust ! Feed smaller crickets during this, they will be easier to digest.

The soaks ( in de-chor water - only ) will help. Be careful not to make the temp of any soaks too warm.
Put your clean wrist in it. If it's too hot for a baby it's too hot for your frog.
Boil and cool a glass or ceramic soaking dish in between soaks! ( ie ceramic plant saucer )
Water in the dish should not be above the frogs chin.

The soak may have brought some of the fluid ( pus ? ) that has formed in infected area to one spot?
Just a personal judgement? The vet will help.

Please ........ keep us posted
Lynn

[Heatheranne]

Sorry to see this late. Yes, I agree...your frog will need systemic antibiotics, without a doubt, now. The infection is spreading and is now moving up the leg. You need a vet. I would recommend not waiting.

Use the original neosporin with a qtip daily for now and please contact a vet.

Please keep us updated.

[CJ PELCHER]

Pictures are much more severe than i would have expected...this is beyond local treatment of neosporin. Im sorry your little guy needs at vet at this point in time. I wish you ALL the best. =/ Please take your frog to the vet =(

[eponine]

Ugh, CJ, I know. Her leg was swollen and the wound seemed to be healing even this MORNING but it has gotten angry and red and even more swollen faster than we could have imagined. It is just so sad

We are trying to do everything we can.

Thanks everyone for your remarkably prompt and thorough replies! We appreciate it and will keep you posted!

[CJ PELCHER]

Oh sorry i made a typo earlier.. Not bacitracin...its Pramoxine that can kill your frogs...my appologies =/
Im assuming you picked up on that though.