can I feed to my frog wildcaught frogs?

[Jason123]

my frog is growing and he is very healthy.Now I am not in the city but in my granma's house.
In the garden there are many frogs
Can I feed some to my pacman?

[danfrog]

I wouldn't. Wild animals can turn your healthy frog into a sick frog.

[Jason123]

but why?I mean the frog I caughtt looks very healthy

[Lija]

NO! never feed wild caught frogs to yours! NEVER!
if to put aside ethical aspect of doing so, wild caught frogs have a load of parasites/bacteria/viruses that they are resistant and are adapted to live with, that is why they look healthy. However captive bred living in captivity is not, and if such a frog get into contact with yours, you will have BIG problems with your very sick and possibly dead frog.

[GrifTheGreat]

Lija and Dan are spot on. To risky.

[EmJay]

Jason, wild animals develop immunity or tolerance to a lot of bacteria, illnesses, and environmental toxins as they grow. Animals bred in captivity never develop this tolerance, and even wild-caught animals can lose most of it as time passes. The wild frog could also have something like a fungal or parasite disease, which is slow-acting and/or invisible to the naked eye, and could infect not just your frog, but your enclosure as well. It's really better not to risk it.

(I don't know a lot about frogs yet, but I do know a wee bit about immunology in general... )

[DVirginiana]

Also, frogs from different parts of the world can be poisonous to one another even if they aren't poisonous to people or even animals living in their natural habitat. Most all amphibians produce some sort of toxin from their skin, but most of the 'non-toxic' ones aren't harmful to other animals that evolved alongside them.

[jelkins]

I've heard this repsonse from members hundreds of times, but never have heard anyone post about losing and animal from feeding it wild-caught foods? Especially taking the time to discern that the wild-caught animal had parasites, what type of parasites and that they were the same parasites that killed their captive animal? You'd have to disect the animal the do this.

I've been feeding my ornata wild caught frogs for years during the spring and summer months when they're available...never had any issues. Just make sure they are grass frogs (Pseudacris ocularis) , woods frogs (Rana sylvatica) or leopard frogs (Rana pipens). If you're worried about parasites you can also order and raise your own eggs from biological supply companies...I've done this serveral times as well.

This is the primary food for this species of frogs in the wild, close to 80% of their natural diet is other anurans.

[Heatheranne]

Still too risky! Trust me...you don't want a sick frog...it's very costly to treat and is a very tedious job, especially if they quit eating due to intestinal parasites.

I'd recommend not. How about starting a nice dubia roach colony or night crawler bin? Night crawlers are nutritious and all you need is a nice cold area to keep them with some coconut fiber substrate and a few veggie and fruit table scraps.

[danfrog]

Just because frogs are the main food sources in the wild doesn't mean that they are the optimal food source in captivity. I mean you wouldn't go and feed your dog dead animals you find on the side of the road just because it is probably what a wild dog would eat if it found it. I guess you could say that pacman frogs are opertunist out in the wild. They will eat what ever is available just to be able to survive a littlebit longer.

[Lija]

Justin, i don't even see the point to argue with "oh i fed like that and nothing happened"
i will repeat though to never use wild caught frogs to a frog living in captivity!
1. ethical aspect of feeding frogs to a frogs! Most people will find offensive the idea of even raised from the eggs and diseases/toxins free frogs to be used as a food, unless there is absolutely no other choice and as a last resort, for example some WC cornutas.
what could possibly be a reason to feed even captive bred or captive raised frogs to a frogs, when there so many food items available. the fact that in a wild frogs diet consist mostly of anurans doesn't necessarily mean we should do that in captivity. First of all the way that data was collected, frogs were collected when they are available ( breeding season and babies/youngsters). At that time and in general they eat what is readily available. More importantly care and life in captivity is very different from such in a wild, thus we need to adjust a lot of things to ensure long and healthy life of a frog.
2. parasites/viruses/bacteria. Don't see a reason to go into any discussion about that, you should read some veterinary books may be? but to add - it is recommended to quarantine ANY captive bred frog for at least 30 days before allowing any contact with your collection ( that include using same tongs, etc), and at least 60 days and in some cases more with deworming done at that time for wild caught frogs.
3. environment toxins.

[DVirginiana]

Well, first of all, the guy who posted this thread is in Greece. None of those species that you listed are found on his continent. Or on the same continent that pacs are from. The argument that those frogs are its 'natural' diet is kind of pointless in that case...

I do have a good anecdote about how toxins from frog species that are typically considered 'non-toxic' can harm reptiles/amphibians from different areas. I raise garter snakes, and they are known to be big amphibian eaters in the wild (NOT in captivity btw! I can't tell you how many people have had to deworm snakes after feeding w/c frogs). In fact, they're the only known animal with immunity to fire newt poison. But only garters living in the same locality as fire newts. Garters of the same species that didn't evolve alongside the newts don't have this immunity. That's an extreme example, but it's a clear one.

You say you've heard not to feed w/c prey hundreds of times; well, there's probably a reason for that. It's a risk. A scientific, quantifiable, risk. w/c frogs contain parasites. No, your frog won't automatically catch the parasite or disease after eating it, but it's a numbers game. Eventually something will go wrong.
I don't go around eating undercooked pork just because some of my ancestors were able to reproduce before dying of trichinosis.

Finally, like has already been said, there's no point in raising your own frogs as feeders. I don't have a problem with it ethically (they probably have a higher quality of life prior to feeding than pinkies/fish/ect. that are farmed and frozen as feeders). But why would you bother? You'll end up with way too many frogs to feed off, they don't freeze well, and you can't ethically release them into wild populations. Like Lija said, they're a last resort. Only time I've ever heard of it being needed is for w/c cornutas and for some failure-to-thrive baby snakes.

[parathalyn]

Thanks for posting this, Justin! I have been wondering what frogs are preyed on by horned frogs and what could be used as feeders for horned frogs (mostly the Surinam horned frog). Have you seen/read anything on what specific species horned frogs prey on in the wild? Does your C. ornata seem to prefer any particular species of feeder frog? Are any of them (grass frogs, wood frogs, leopard frogs, etc.) easier to raise than the others?

I've been feeding my ornata wild caught frogs for years during the spring and summer months when they're available...never had any issues. Just make sure they are grass frogs (Pseudacris ocularis) , woods frogs (Rana sylvatica) or leopard frogs (Rana pipens). If you're worried about parasites you can also order and raise your own eggs from biological supply companies...I've done this serveral times as well.

This is the primary food for this species of frogs in the wild, close to 80% of their natural diet is other anurans.

[Namio]

Why risk your frog's life? Does chytrid fungus ring a bell? I am certain that many of you are aware of it, but for those who aren't, chytrid is a microscopic fungus that can cause a lethal disease in amphibian called "chytridiomycosis." Chytrid is spread among frogs through physical contact and while some frogs are resistant to chytridiomycosis (i.e. Pseudacris spp.), they act as carriers (disease vectors). So if you happened to catch an infected frog and offered it to your beloved pacman, chances are you will eventually kill your own frog via chytrid infection. I strongly recommend everyone to NEVER offer any amphibians to your pet frogs. There are many healthy alternative food options on the market.

Ceratophrys species are NOT resistant to chytrid infection (multiple scientific papers have documented this). They will die once being infected and not treated in time.

[maxQ]

Im ready for ridicule but I cant even entertain the thought of feeding my frogs live frogs. Frogs are my addiction, obsession and love, I cant imagine feeding a live Frog to my guys.


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[demon amphibians]

Also did anyone consider that the frogs in the garden might be toads. Many species of toads are toxic I can go outside right now and find a toad and it will be toxic if consumed. Just food for thought.

[DVirginiana]

Why this persistent interest in feeding your pacman feeder frogs? You've gotten overwhelming response saying that it is a BAD idea. The ONLY situation in which feeder frogs are better than other options is if you have a frog that refuses to eat anything else, and from what you're saying you don't seem to have one of those frogs. Not everyone with cornutas feeds them frogs. I think that may be more of an issue with WC frogs. In addition to providing no benefit that you can't get from safe feeders, and having a lot of associated risks, feeder frogs are more expensive to deal with.

And you're talking about raising them... How would you keep these frogs? There's no way your three pacmans are going to eat enough to put a dent in a breeding population of feeder frogs. And you can't release captive bred feeders into the wild (it's just not ethical. you can't risk introducing disease and new genetics into the wild populations). So are you going to just euthanize the hundreds of tads and froglets that don't get eaten? They don't freeze well. Also, think of the space and filtration equipment you'd need to keep those feeders in humane conditions.

The studies saying that wild horned frogs eat mostly frogs are generally skewed. The only time any number of these frogs can be reliably found and sampled would be during breeding season, when they are surrounded by other frogs. They eat anything that moves. Therefore, during breeding season they eat a lot of other frogs.
Also, their average lifespan in the wild is much less than in captivity, because here they don't HAVE to eat food sources that are potentially toxic or carry parasites.

FYI: None of those frog species you mentioned are native to South America. If you want the frogs that they'd be eating in the wild, you're probably going to have to pay through the nose to buy exotics as feeders.

[GrifTheGreat]

Everything has pretty much been covered on this subject. The risks outweigh any possible benefit from offering wild caught frogs. Just because it is a large part of their diet in the wild doesn't mean it is the ideal feeder to offer our CB Pacmans. You risk killing your frog by catching wild frogs as feeders. Chytrid being a huge killer in this case and possibly spreading through your wholr collectoon before you even realize its there.

Use common sense people.