Hello all, New to the forum intro

[juice]

Hi all I'm knew to the forum and look forward to learning from all of you on how to maintain my newly setup terrarium, w/ Red-Eyed Leaf Frog inhabitant.

Little background on what is quickly becoming an obsession to me.

2 weekends ago I took my family to the lake. My oldest daughter 6 was catching some baby frogs still going through their metamorphosis. (Still had their tales) She wanted to take them home. I promised her that if we left these here in the wild that I would look into getting her a pet frog this was 6/23/2013 . That Monday I bought exo-terra 18x18x24 rainforest terrarium kit received it on Wednesday and set it up . I have spent all my time at work researching to the point where I have not gotten any work done at all. LOL

After setting it up I monitored the temp and humidity in the terrarium Thursday, Friday & Saturday it was holding steady at 80 degrees with 75% humidity. This was using just a regular incandescent light bulb 60 watts I think. So I took the plunge on Sunday yes this past Sunday! Went to the local pet store where they had the red eyed had been researching all week.

Bought a UV bulb to replace the incandescent and a red bulb for night temp and viewing. Bought some terrarium moss, a piece of tree bark wood and bought a pesticide sprayer to use as a my misting unit which i filled with 1 gallon of distilled water. (Cleaned and rinsed thoroughly)

After changing the bulb i noticed my tanks humidity had gone down to about 60. Now the only difference i can see is we were home with the AC running while Thursday - Saturday my wife and kids were at my mothers all day until we got home. AC not running during that time. The frog when purchased was a vibrant green.

Now this is where it gets a little dicey. My daughter caught a baby praying mantis and decided to stick it in the terrarium. Well last night when RIO (the name of my daughters Red-Eyed Leaf Frog) woke up and long story short ate it. (really cool to watch) Few minutes later it ate 2 of the 6 baby crickets we bought at the same time. After each one RIO ate it would go back to sleep is that normal?

This morning when changing RIO's water bowl I misted and took notice of the temp and humidity. The temp jumped to 90 degrees while the humidity had stayed at 60% and RIO well he/she is not so vibrant instead he/she is a DARK green.

Should I have some concern about this? All in all RIO seems ok, breathing doesn't seem raced or slowed. The temperature worried me so I unscrewed the red bulb before I left for work.

So I'm concerned that either its an issue with my humidity and temp or the fact that he ate that nymph praying mantis.

He is as dark as the one in this post. http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...een-color.html

Thanks in advance for any insight you all can share.

Juice

[Heatheranne]

Hi Juice and welcome to the forum .

Temps and humidity - The fluctuations in the temp and humidity are likely due to the change in bulbs and the changes with the AC. See if you can find a steady schedule. 90'F is definitely way too high. I shoot for a goal of 78'F during the day. Humidity can range between 70-80%. If you have a dimmer on the light dome, try turning it down a bit. I'm sure it will help both situations of high heat and low humidity.

Keeping in humidity - You can also cover half or more of the screen top with foil, Saran Wrap, glass, or plexiglass to help keep the humidity in. Adding plants helps too because the water droplets tend to cling to the plants giving you more surface area to hold the moisture.

Water - Be sure that you only use spring water or dechlorinated tap water for his soaking bowl and to moisten his substrate. Change water bowl water daily. Distilled water is fine for misting but when they soak in it it actually pulls electrolytes out of the frog through his skin because distilled water has no minerals or electrolytes in it.

The dark color...

Red eyed tree frogs and other tree frogs turn different shades for a few reasons...

Camouflage - you will find they they tend to blend into their environments such as lighter green when on light green leaves and darker green when in shadows. They also tend to turn a darker green at night especially when hunting for food. This is a normal response. Mine vary from a nice bright lime green, to a medium green, to a dark green and when under the florescent light they sometimes even look a little minty to almost slightly light blueish hue. They can even have separate portions of light and dark on them at the same time if half of them is in the lighted area and half in a shadowed area.

Infection - They should never have light green or brown slimy-looking spots. That is generally bacterial and/or fungal infection.

Stress - They often turn dark colors or stay darker colors when they are stressed or are not feeling well.

This could be do to any number of things.... environment or housing changes, interruptions by loud areas or areas of too much traffic and disturbance, improper temps and humidity (husbandry), uncleanliness of their homes, improper food items and poor nutritional choices, too large of prey, lack of gut-loading for food choices that lack nutritive value (crickets), lack of or too much supplementation of vitamins or calcium/D3, lack of feeling safe/secure in their homes, over handling of the frogs, improper housing set-ups such as terrestrial tanks for tree frogs and vice versa, lack of shelter areas such as trees for tree frogs and hides/caves for land-swelling frogs, lack of swimming areas for aquatic frogs, not keeping a usual day / night Lighting schedule, etc. I'm sure I've forgotten to list a few.

The goal is to provide the most accurate homes to their natural habitat, keeping it safe, providing security, minimizing stress by loud, crazy environments, maintaining proper cleanliness, and by proving them with the best nutrition.

Birthmarks - Scattered white slightly raised dots can be normal for them if they are already present on the frog and do not disappear or randomly appear. They are similar to a birthmark.

http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...rogs-skin.html

Monitoring color changes - The goal is to monitor any color changes and behaviors of the frog. Is he acting differently? Eating? Pooping? Peeing? Bloated? thin? Soaking? Has his energy level changed, ie is he lethargic? These are good indicators as to if things are okay or not.

If your frog is acting normally, eating, pooping, peeing, soaking, awake at night and asleep during the day, and the colors return to normal there is no cause for alarm.

The praying mantis as food - this is a good question and one I do not know the answer to. Do they eat them in nature...possibly. I would have to do some research. Are mantis's toxic? I do not know. You could shoot a PM to JeffreH. He is very knowledgeable in insects.

I hope this helps. Please ask more questions if I've missed anything.

Do you have a photo of your frog and his home?



Continue

[Heatheranne]

^ Normal tree frog spots or "birthmarks". Lynn likes to call them freckles .



^ Camouflage and effects of light on the frogs.

[flybyferns]

Hi Juice,

How is Rio today
As far as I know the mantis are not poisonous.
But let's ask Jeff to be 100% sure.

However, how big is your frog and how large was the mantis?
Did the frog struggle when it ate the mantis?
If it was large...I'm not so sure it would be very easy to digest.t could bite.
" " " " ... keep an eye on the frogs poop or the lack there of.

Are you sure there are no more mantis in Rio's enclosure -- as I think they could bite.

And maybe get a little lock on the enclosure latch ; you don't want an accidental froggy escapes !

Keep us posted !
Enjoy him ! We would love to see some photos !

Lynn

[JeffreH]

Mantes are not poisonous - but that isn't to say that any wild caught specimens did not come into contact with some kind of chemical -cide or consumed an insect that might itself be toxic. Both of which would be unlikely though, in my opinion, as the mantis itself would have probably succumb to either before being eaten by the frog. As a VERY general rule that should not be taken too literally; predatory, cryptic insect species that are heavily camouflaged are not poisonous.

Just my $0.02 - Heather and Lynn have provided some great information and questions to help us further along.

[juice]

Thought I sent this yesterday apparently i never hit the post button.

Thanks for the reply. When I got home last night he was much better. Temperature at 80 with about 70 % humidity. That held all night. Is it true they can't see red? I purchased the red bulb for night heating and observing him at night or should I be turning that off at some point too. Thanks for pointing out the distilled water bowl comment. I will be sure to use bottles spring water for him now. All seems to be good with him he is eating, moving around, his skin looks good and I think he is doing well. I will try and get some pics up soon,

[juice]

Hi Lynn

He is much better now. I think it may have just been to hot in his enclosure. When I removed one of the two bulbs the temperature drop 10 degrees. I also added a piece of plexi glass to keep some of the moisture in. The enclosure is now running pretty steady.

The mantis was little. To compare think of a mealworm with arms and legs. Rio gobbled him up with no problem I'm sure the crickets were bigger then the mantis.

Definately need to get a lock just to ensure my daughter doesn't add anything else. I explained to her why it was unsafe for her RIO and she promised not to do it again. She is only 6 though so a lock it will be.

I will try and get some pics up tonight.

[juice]

Thanks Jeff appreciate the insight.

[juice]

Here are some pics of Rio and his home. Sorry for the quality I was using my phone and with him being small I had to zoom in causing some distortion.

[juice]

^ Camouflage and effects of light on the frogs.

What are you feeding him!!! My god that guy looks like he can beat me up. Very impressive!!

[Heatheranne]

Ha ha! He's just shedding. They tighten up and then do a wiggle-like motion to loosen the skin. Then they pull it off from back to front .

[Heatheranne]

Oh, mine eat gut-loaded crickets. I've tried little dubias but they are not interested.