Yet another new baby frog topic! I need your expertise please!

[NialR35]

First of all, I would like to thank all the great contributors in these forums. I have been doing research throughout several topics within these forums prior to getting my baby pacman frog so I can educate myself and be prepared and you all have been great with all the advise you have provided; but I have encountered some issues and need your expertise on my particular case. I obtained my pacman two days ago and well here is my info:

1. Size of enclosure- Exo Terra 18x18x12( But I recently moved my baby to a medium sized critter carrier)
2. # of inhabitants - 1
3. Humidity- 80%
4. Temperature-78-80
5. Water - type - I use tap water treated with reptisafe for everything.
6. Materials used for substrate- Eco Earth
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials: Pastic plant/leaves, "wood" log, water dish, and I covered one side of the Exo Terra terrarium with a laminated "jungle-like" screen to reduce stress, the other side is mostly covered by the UTH and the other side covered with the foam rock thing that came with the terrarium.
8. Main food source- Crickets- He has not eaten since I got him at all.
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)- The idea is twice per week Ca and once per week multivitamins. Using repcal.
10. Lighting- Two 5.5" lamps with dimmers and a 50 watt zoo med basking spot lamp with tight beam and another 50watt zoo med nocturnal infrared heat lamp for the night.
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure- Side mounted zoo med UTH and the recently acquired basking lamp/infrared
12. When is the last time he/she ate- Two days ago
13. Have you found poop lately- Don't think so
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)-attached
15. How old is the frog- I don't know, probably less than 4 months. Under two inches for sure.
16. How long have you owned him/her-2 days
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred-Most likely captive bred.
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats- Only have tried crickets with no luck.
19. How often the frog is handled- Never.
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area-No traffic at all, alone in my room.
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)- changing water daily, misting 2-3 times per day, adjusting light bulbs accordingly


The main problem is: HE IS NOT EATING!

I acquired my baby frog two days ago, he has not eaten at all yet. I had him in the 18x18x12 exo terra and after doing much research in these forums, I moved him today to a medium critter carrier that I placed inside the exo terra terrarium( I did this to eliminate the "too-big-for-him" rule, so let's see what happens). I also bought the basking light/infrared lights today in order to help me reach a stable temperature of 82 F during the daytime because the side mounted heat pad was not doing it, so I bought the dimming lamp with those bulbs to supplement the lack of heat. I also bought these lamps to help me with the day/night cycle because my room is dark and daylight is barely in it since I keep my shades closed when I go to work.

a)Is it okay to put the critter carrier inside the bigger cage? I only did this because 1) I did not want to attach the UTH to the plastic carrier and 2) I did not want to put the lamps on top of the plastic carrier either because it would be way too close. However I also bought an exo terra thermometer-hygrometer combo digital meter because I was using an analog dual-gauge zoo med one but temp never went higher than 78 so I bought a digital one to be safe. I also put an old pillow case covering half of the exo terra cage to help me with the humidity and temps.

b)How can I get him to eat? It has been two days, he does look "fat" but spends the whole day burrowed and I have tried to feed him a couple of times using tongues and shaking the cricket like a Polaroid picture in front of him but nothing! I'm starting to get worried, even though this type of behavior might be normal for a new pacman baby but I really hope he starts eating soon. Crickets are dying =(. I'm feeding the crickets fluckers orange cube, are those okay? Are nightcrawlers/mealworms the same thing and better than crickets?

c) Do I need to do anything else as far as his habitat? What times are best to feed him?

I followed Grif's every word of advise combined into one habitat lol, but please help me! This is my first frog and I've always been interested in pacman's( who doesn't love watching them eat? =) ) and I have tried everything I could and read to make this work so I hope the recently acquired critter carrier along with the lamps help this little guy out. Thanks in advance guys!

p.s- The temps shown on the picture are when I first put the probe from the new digital meter. As of now they are 80F and 80% which is an improvement. Sorry I was not able to take a picture of him, but he was deeply burrowed and I guess sleeping.

[MatthewM1]

I would raise temps to 82-83 but he probably just needs time to settle in, some take a few days after being brought home to relax and eat. Try offering food about 30 mins or so after lights out. Also he may be afraid of the tongs, try just dropping a cricket in there and letting it run around a bit, remove it if he hasn't eaten it by the next morning. Avoid mealworms their shells are much harder than crickets and can cause impaction. Nightcrawlers make an excellent food though

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[Lija]

ha, somebody sure did a great research on a frog! good job!
the problem with small tank inside the big one, you need to move it every time you do something, feed/change water/etc, so a frog will be experiencing earthquakes on a regular basis = possibly stressing out. what you can do is to cover 3 sides of your keeper and stick your heat pad to it.
2 days and not eating is ok, he needs time to adjust, but i'd like to know if he is albino or not ( lights choice will depend on it)
or and you gotta raise temps a little and do a night drop of a few degrees - 80-82 ( day), 76-78( night)

[NialR35]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

He is not albino, just green with yellow lines. Yea, it's kinda of a hassle to clean and stuff while the carrier inside, but other than that it should be fine right?

Is it okay to apply the heat pad to the plastic carrier? I thought it was only good for glass? I only put the carrier inside the tank today because I thought it wasn't good to apply such a big heat pad( its for a 10-20 gallon tank) to a small critter carrier. Will this affect temperatures inside the carrier though? I did make sure I put the digital meter's probe inside the carrier to make sure I have good readings.

He's been burrowed all day, I hope he comes out at night to eat something. I will try what Matthew said. Dropping a couple crickets inside to see if he eats them while I sleep. But is there anything to look out for? Am I okay for now and should just wait it out? Thank you Lija and Matthew.

[Lija]

you're welcome.
you need mini heat pad, the one for hermit crabs or you can place a heat lamp above the tank, but not directly on it of course.
Matthew gave you an excellent advice! but the guys won't eat until he feels safe, it is not fun to hunt when you might become food yourself so give him some time, he'll come around, you did well on everything!

edit - read your post again, don't tong feed him now, if you don't know if he is tong trained. how deep he buried? you can gently uncover his head so he can see and drop a few crickets ( not too big, make sure they're no more then distance between his eyes) to roam free, and do it after lights are off and temps down, like in 30min.

[NialR35]

Cool. So far I just turned off his daylight and drop 4 crickets that are right for his size. He is completely buried and hasn't come out in a couple of hours. I lowered his temp 77 and the crickets are in there. I hope he gets out of his insecurity bubble soon, he did look healthy when I got him so hopefully its just that. =( I will keep you guys updated tomorrow...

[GrifTheGreat]

The only suggestion I will make is to cover 3 sides of the carrier with some kind of background. Even though he is inside the other tank he can see out the sides of the carrier and may still feel that he is in a larger area than he really is.

You've done an excellet job with your research!

[NialR35]

Thanks guys!

To Grif: Do I really have to take the carrier out and cover it? Can I wrap a sweater around it or something? I don't think the laminated paper I have will stick to the plastic carrier. Do you think it will make a big difference? Even if he looks outside of the carrier, the walls of the big tank are covered though. Let me know.

Also, if I take the carrier out of the tank, how do I keep it warm? My dimmer lamps do not have clamps ( I was not able to find the ones you always recommend but I found these other ones that work the same way expect without a clamp), and my heat pad is too big for that carrier. Can I attach a UTH to a plastic carrier? I'm using one of those hermit crab ones until he grows; and I don't think I should place my basking lamp on top of the plastic carrier because he will get fried and so will the plastic probably.

I REALLY would like to take the carrier out of the big tank, but the problem is how do I keep it warm?

[GrifTheGreat]

Lija explained above. You need to place a Hermit Crab UTH on the side of the carrier. Zoo Med Mini UTHs are safe for plastic so you can attach on to the side of the carrier. This will be enough to help warm it.

As for placing background on the carrier. Yes it will make a difference. Just tape the background on. Static cling backgrounds are also good and will adhere to the plastic carrier.

Next time you feed him just uncover his head so that he can see food is present.

[NialR35]

I see. Okay, I will buy a zoo med mini UTH and something to attach to the sides of the plastic carrier. I hope this does the trick, because it really is annoying to do stuff while the carrier is inside the tank. I just really hope that it is and the frog isn't sick or something. I got him at Petsmart.

Also, just for future reference: for Albino frogs you cannot use the basking light, so what do you use instead for a daylight light to compensate heat? I read something like a ceramic bulb or something. Remember I do need light because my room is dark and I don't want it to affect the day/night cycle.

[NialR35]

Updates:

I bought a zoo med mini UTH for the plastic carrier along with a background for it. It seems the temperature is a little higher in the carrier with that mini UTH so I wont be using the lamp for now.

For some reason the zoo med analog gauges are giving me lower readings that the digital one...could it be because the analog meters are on the "cool side" of the carrier and the probe for the digital is next to the heat pad?

Another thing that I consider good is that while I doing the new additions to the carrier, he went to the bathroom. That should be a plus right? Hopefully he starts eating soon, it's been three days that I have not seen him eat.

[Lija]

or it is because majority of analog ones are garbage probe on a digital should be in a dead centre of everything, in a middle between cool side and a heat pad.

yes if he pooped it is good.

[NialR35]

I moved the probe to the middle of the carrier, and the temp dropped to 77.5 yet humidity stayed at 80. These temp monitoring can drive you crazy sometimes lol... Since i have a fairly small carrier( I'd say around 2.5 gal or a little less) I ended up putting the mini uth on the left side of the carrier and the water bowl on the right side of the carrier so that it evens out on the cool side/warm side OR should I put the UTH on the front/back of the carrier? I will tried the tips you all gave me tonight during feeding time. I'm just worried I haven't been able to dust yet...oh well.

Thank you anyway Lija, I will keep you all posted!

[Lija]

you're welcome!
not dusting for a day or 2 not big deal at all, as long as he eats anything it is good.

[GrifTheGreat]

UTH on the back is best.

[NialR35]

Just a quick update:

After doing all those changes, I dropped 5 medium/ small crickets and this morning I only saw 2 left so hopefully he ate some and they were not buried.

Another thing was that the temperature was at 73 on the digital and 78-80 on the analog when I woke up this morning( way too cold) but it was 78 when I went to sleep. I did not use the infrared at night because I thought the mini heat pad was enough. Is this normal? I see the temps are not reaching 82 unless I use the lamps at about 75% power. Should I really have to use both? I'm finding it hard to tweak the temps....

Also is there anything easier to feed than crickets? They are a hassle lol

[Lija]

for a baby crickets are easiest, unless he'd eat from tongs, but I'd wait for that until you know he is eating.
temps are hassle, yes unless you have hydrotherm who'd do it for you.

[NialR35]

Thanks Lija! What does a hydrotherm do? does it control both temp and humidity to whatever temps you set it to? If so what's a good one/brand?

[NialR35]

How do you all keep your temps/humidity steady and what do you use? Tweaking this every hours is a pain.

[Lija]

How do you all keep your temps/humidity steady and what do you use? Tweaking this every hours is a pain.

hydrotherm! that is how we do, or just figuring out after days of a checking on temps/humidity what works.
hydrotherm by zoomed is a humidity and temp controller, fogger and heat devices plugged in = headache free life for human. unless you live in super dry climate like me, then you need to flood your substrate once in a while or spray but that is not a big deal.