Yet another new baby frog topic! I need your expertise please!

[NialR35]

First of all, I would like to thank all the great contributors in these forums. I have been doing research throughout several topics within these forums prior to getting my baby pacman frog so I can educate myself and be prepared and you all have been great with all the advise you have provided; but I have encountered some issues and need your expertise on my particular case. I obtained my pacman two days ago and well here is my info:

1. Size of enclosure- Exo Terra 18x18x12( But I recently moved my baby to a medium sized critter carrier)
2. # of inhabitants - 1
3. Humidity- 80%
4. Temperature-78-80
5. Water - type - I use tap water treated with reptisafe for everything.
6. Materials used for substrate- Eco Earth
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials: Pastic plant/leaves, "wood" log, water dish, and I covered one side of the Exo Terra terrarium with a laminated "jungle-like" screen to reduce stress, the other side is mostly covered by the UTH and the other side covered with the foam rock thing that came with the terrarium.
8. Main food source- Crickets- He has not eaten since I got him at all.
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)- The idea is twice per week Ca and once per week multivitamins. Using repcal.
10. Lighting- Two 5.5" lamps with dimmers and a 50 watt zoo med basking spot lamp with tight beam and another 50watt zoo med nocturnal infrared heat lamp for the night.
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure- Side mounted zoo med UTH and the recently acquired basking lamp/infrared
12. When is the last time he/she ate- Two days ago
13. Have you found poop lately- Don't think so
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)-attached
15. How old is the frog- I don't know, probably less than 4 months. Under two inches for sure.
16. How long have you owned him/her-2 days
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred-Most likely captive bred.
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats- Only have tried crickets with no luck.
19. How often the frog is handled- Never.
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area-No traffic at all, alone in my room.
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)- changing water daily, misting 2-3 times per day, adjusting light bulbs accordingly


The main problem is: HE IS NOT EATING!

I acquired my baby frog two days ago, he has not eaten at all yet. I had him in the 18x18x12 exo terra and after doing much research in these forums, I moved him today to a medium critter carrier that I placed inside the exo terra terrarium( I did this to eliminate the "too-big-for-him" rule, so let's see what happens). I also bought the basking light/infrared lights today in order to help me reach a stable temperature of 82 F during the daytime because the side mounted heat pad was not doing it, so I bought the dimming lamp with those bulbs to supplement the lack of heat. I also bought these lamps to help me with the day/night cycle because my room is dark and daylight is barely in it since I keep my shades closed when I go to work.

a)Is it okay to put the critter carrier inside the bigger cage? I only did this because 1) I did not want to attach the UTH to the plastic carrier and 2) I did not want to put the lamps on top of the plastic carrier either because it would be way too close. However I also bought an exo terra thermometer-hygrometer combo digital meter because I was using an analog dual-gauge zoo med one but temp never went higher than 78 so I bought a digital one to be safe. I also put an old pillow case covering half of the exo terra cage to help me with the humidity and temps.

b)How can I get him to eat? It has been two days, he does look "fat" but spends the whole day burrowed and I have tried to feed him a couple of times using tongues and shaking the cricket like a Polaroid picture in front of him but nothing! I'm starting to get worried, even though this type of behavior might be normal for a new pacman baby but I really hope he starts eating soon. Crickets are dying =(. I'm feeding the crickets fluckers orange cube, are those okay? Are nightcrawlers/mealworms the same thing and better than crickets?

c) Do I need to do anything else as far as his habitat? What times are best to feed him?

I followed Grif's every word of advise combined into one habitat lol, but please help me! This is my first frog and I've always been interested in pacman's( who doesn't love watching them eat? =) ) and I have tried everything I could and read to make this work so I hope the recently acquired critter carrier along with the lamps help this little guy out. Thanks in advance guys!

p.s- The temps shown on the picture are when I first put the probe from the new digital meter. As of now they are 80F and 80% which is an improvement. Sorry I was not able to take a picture of him, but he was deeply burrowed and I guess sleeping.

[MatthewM1]

I would raise temps to 82-83 but he probably just needs time to settle in, some take a few days after being brought home to relax and eat. Try offering food about 30 mins or so after lights out. Also he may be afraid of the tongs, try just dropping a cricket in there and letting it run around a bit, remove it if he hasn't eaten it by the next morning. Avoid mealworms their shells are much harder than crickets and can cause impaction. Nightcrawlers make an excellent food though

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[Lija]

ha, somebody sure did a great research on a frog! good job!
the problem with small tank inside the big one, you need to move it every time you do something, feed/change water/etc, so a frog will be experiencing earthquakes on a regular basis = possibly stressing out. what you can do is to cover 3 sides of your keeper and stick your heat pad to it.
2 days and not eating is ok, he needs time to adjust, but i'd like to know if he is albino or not ( lights choice will depend on it)
or and you gotta raise temps a little and do a night drop of a few degrees - 80-82 ( day), 76-78( night)

[NialR35]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

He is not albino, just green with yellow lines. Yea, it's kinda of a hassle to clean and stuff while the carrier inside, but other than that it should be fine right?

Is it okay to apply the heat pad to the plastic carrier? I thought it was only good for glass? I only put the carrier inside the tank today because I thought it wasn't good to apply such a big heat pad( its for a 10-20 gallon tank) to a small critter carrier. Will this affect temperatures inside the carrier though? I did make sure I put the digital meter's probe inside the carrier to make sure I have good readings.

He's been burrowed all day, I hope he comes out at night to eat something. I will try what Matthew said. Dropping a couple crickets inside to see if he eats them while I sleep. But is there anything to look out for? Am I okay for now and should just wait it out? Thank you Lija and Matthew.

[Lija]

you're welcome.
you need mini heat pad, the one for hermit crabs or you can place a heat lamp above the tank, but not directly on it of course.
Matthew gave you an excellent advice! but the guys won't eat until he feels safe, it is not fun to hunt when you might become food yourself so give him some time, he'll come around, you did well on everything!

edit - read your post again, don't tong feed him now, if you don't know if he is tong trained. how deep he buried? you can gently uncover his head so he can see and drop a few crickets ( not too big, make sure they're no more then distance between his eyes) to roam free, and do it after lights are off and temps down, like in 30min.

[NialR35]

Cool. So far I just turned off his daylight and drop 4 crickets that are right for his size. He is completely buried and hasn't come out in a couple of hours. I lowered his temp 77 and the crickets are in there. I hope he gets out of his insecurity bubble soon, he did look healthy when I got him so hopefully its just that. =( I will keep you guys updated tomorrow...

[GrifTheGreat]

The only suggestion I will make is to cover 3 sides of the carrier with some kind of background. Even though he is inside the other tank he can see out the sides of the carrier and may still feel that he is in a larger area than he really is.

You've done an excellet job with your research!

[NialR35]

Just a quick update:

After doing all those changes, I dropped 5 medium/ small crickets and this morning I only saw 2 left so hopefully he ate some and they were not buried.

Another thing was that the temperature was at 73 on the digital and 78-80 on the analog when I woke up this morning( way too cold) but it was 78 when I went to sleep. I did not use the infrared at night because I thought the mini heat pad was enough. Is this normal? I see the temps are not reaching 82 unless I use the lamps at about 75% power. Should I really have to use both? I'm finding it hard to tweak the temps....

Also is there anything easier to feed than crickets? They are a hassle lol

[Lija]

for a baby crickets are easiest, unless he'd eat from tongs, but I'd wait for that until you know he is eating.
temps are hassle, yes unless you have hydrotherm who'd do it for you.

[NialR35]

Thanks Lija! What does a hydrotherm do? does it control both temp and humidity to whatever temps you set it to? If so what's a good one/brand?

[NialR35]

How do you all keep your temps/humidity steady and what do you use? Tweaking this every hours is a pain.

[Lija]

How do you all keep your temps/humidity steady and what do you use? Tweaking this every hours is a pain.

hydrotherm! that is how we do, or just figuring out after days of a checking on temps/humidity what works.
hydrotherm by zoomed is a humidity and temp controller, fogger and heat devices plugged in = headache free life for human. unless you live in super dry climate like me, then you need to flood your substrate once in a while or spray but that is not a big deal.

[GrifTheGreat]

The Hygrotherm will work for the big tank, but not the keeper. Can't easily adapt a fogger for it and no place to feed in the large sensor with the lid on.

Just mist him a couple times a day and keep him in the warmest room. At night you can use an infrared bulb in the lamp and point it at the keeper, but keep the lamp 10" to 12" away.

Have you covered the lid of the keeper with Saran Wrap/Plastic Wrap? From the picturesit looks like you have not. Doing so will help maintain temp and humidity levels. Just cut a piece large enough to cover the top of the lid draping down over the front and back vents, but leave the side vents open for air circulation. Tape the Saran Wrap to the lid and cut a whole in the top just large enough to open the access door on the top so you can drop food in and open it to check on the frog. This will help.

[NialR35]

Thanks again Lija!!

@Grif: I managed to use the tank's screen lid to rest my lamps on it while keeping the 12" distance from the lamp to the carrier but I noticed when i got back home from work that the water tank was empty!! Which means the basking light evaporated it.

-If i use the infrared lamp instead, will this cause the water to evaporate as well?

-Also from the pictures I just posted, seeing how close the lamp is to the carrier....that won't melt/ignite the plastic wrap right? lol just wondering before I do it...Will plastic wrap help increase temps? I really don't know what to do anymore and I'm having a tough time dimming the light almost at 80% power and it's still not really warming it up where its supposed to which leads to the next question....sensor placement

-I'm using zoo med combo meter( has a hygrometer/ thermometer built in- it's the black one) It does not really have a probe but rather something like a censor...I'm currently placing it on the left side of the carrier, towards the middle away from the heat pad that is placed on the back. Is that a good place to put that sensor? As of now it only reads 78.6 F and 87% humidity but that temp is too low for daytime so I'm wondering if i placed the thing in the right place. I'm assuming the area next to the heat pad is a lot hotter but the baby is on the opposite side next to the water bowl, which is on the far right.

I'm open to any ideas if you guys suggest relocating stuff inside the carrier and what not.

[NialR35]

About the hygrotherm:

From the pictures I found, you can only hook up two devices to it; unless I'm wrong. So I also would need to buy a fogger for this to work out right?

-Which fogger do you guys recommend that is compatible with the zoo med Hygrotherm?
-I have dimming lamps with my bulbs and a UTH as well. Which one do you guys plug to this Hygrotherm? Because from what the picture shows, one plug is for the heat and the other one for the fogger. Educate me on this because when I move my frog to the big tank I will for sure get this to make my life easier. I don't mind misting at all, and I live in Florida so humidity is always there hahaha, but tweaking the temps every couple of hours is annoying.
-It really bothers me that the analog shows me 81F and 55% humid but the digital shows 79F and 86% humid. =(

How do you guys have this set up? Thanks for everything!!

[NialR35]

What do you guys normally feed your pacmans as a staple diet? Crickets are kinda annoying.

And how do you dust the food? Plastic bag and shake? Lol

[NialR35]

Thank you so much guys, you all have been really helpful and knowledgeable!

I was reading the reptisafe instructions and it mentions that for 5 gallons of water, add a 5 ml of reptisafe. So I'm assuming it's safe to use 1ml for a gallon? I'm asking this for when the time comes to change the substrate, I was planning to buy a gallon of water and use that as a measurement to clean/scald/rinse the items and tank. Unless you all have a better way to do this from your own experience!

Also how many different types of pacmans are there? Man I bought mine at petsmart not knowing all these "fantasy" "samurais" "dragon" pacs existed!!! So for sure now I want to buy a second one that has horns and nice flashy colors, because honestly when they are full grown they are ugly so might as well get something with a nice pattern/colors hahaha. Any breeders that have a good reputation here? Thank guys, your unconditional help really has done a lot for me, and I hope one day I can do the same for others with the knowledge I gather from you all.

[Lija]

lol lol lol hahahaha hey that is how it starts, see that brown one in my avatar - that is the one that started it for me, loved him to pieces, i didn't know about flashy colors either, a frog was a frog. period lol oh boy how it all changed now you have a big list of frogs that you want, i believe Grif has 21 frog now lol just 10 for me so far lol
and by the way that is why most of us are here, someone helped you and you want to give back to frog loving community by helping as many as you possibly can, and in a process learning more yourself, FF becomes your family froggy family, some people for different reasons don't have their frogs anymore but they're still around and share their knowledge! thank you guys for being here

for your question - i use prime, you buy one bottle for like 5-6 $ and it last forever ( 6 month or so), with yours use as it says on a bottle and yes, if it says 5ml per 5 gal, for 1 gallon you use 1 ml
and another question - there are a lot of different species of pacman frogs, and each has different color morphs, trying to count species- ornate, cranwelli, cornuta, joaz, aurita, stolzmanni, am i missing someone? and then cross species hybrids such as fantazy. in other words if you want to get all different colors of each different species and hybrids you better have a very big room and wallet lol

[NialR35]

LOL. Lija, I guess I'm not alone then ahhahahahah..... I want a fantasy so bad now hahahahha. ( I REALLY DO!!!!!!! ) they look much cooler and their colors/patterns seem very exotic-like as well.

Can you guys recommend any breeders/websites to order me one? My local reptile store does not have any and I highly doubt petco/petsmart will have those either. Thanks

[danfrog]

I use nightcrawlers for calcium dust days, and crickets for vitamin dust days. Then a pinky once a month. Nothing wild caught.