I need help!

[djmosier]

Wacca is sick, I think. She seemed fine up until just a few days ago, when she refused to eat. I've been offering her food every day, to try to entice her, and yesterday I gave her a honey bath, then a regular bath, which caused her to poop. I thought sure she'd want to eat today, but she didn't. A little while ago, I took her out to clean the enclosure and change her substrate and she was all limp. She stuck her back legs out behind her and made the only sound I've ever heard her make in the 3 months I've had her. It was a very weak squeal, then she went completely limp and squishy in my hand. I put her in a large glass bowl lined with wet paper towels and put her half log over her to make her feel secure, and heartbroken, figured that she would probably die overnight. I kept checking on her and about 30 minutes after putting her in the bowl, she seems a little stronger, and her breathing seems more normal now. I have no idea what happened. I'm going to the next town where there's a Walmart to buy some Pedialyte, hoping that will help, because I've seen that suggested before on the forum. I don't remember what to do with it other than soak her in it, and beyond that, I have no idea what's wrong or how to help her. Please help me. Thank you.

[djmosier]

This was taken just 2 days ago. She had just shedded and seemed fine, except that she wouldn't eat, and seemed a little listless.

[GrifTheGreat]

Answer these questions and repost your answers here in your thread. http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

She may have been stressed from all the handling and you probably startled her when you dug her up. Try not to hover around her so much and handle her only when necessary. Stress will make a sick frog worse.

Answer the questions so we can figure this out.

[djmosier]

1) Size of the enclosure: 10 gallon tank
2) # of inhabitants: 1
3) Humidity: 70% - 75%
4) Temperature: 80 degrees F.
5) Water type for misting and soaking dish - distilled treated water
6) Material used for substrate: organic coconut fiber
7) Enclosure setup: 1 artificial plant, shallow water dish, half log
8) Main food source: gut-loaded crickets
9) Vitamins and calcium: dusted crickets - multivitamin once weekly, calcium twice weekly
10) Lighting: Natural lighting or supplemental red light (25 watt) I haven't been using the red light since I bought the heat mat
11) What is being used to maintain the temp: heat mat on the side of the enclosure when temp drops below 80
12) When is the last time she ate: 3 days ago, but ate less than normal
13) Have you found poop lately: yesterday after honey bath
14) Pic already shown
15) How old: unknown, but she was pretty small when I got her
16) How long have you owned her: 3 months
17) Caught or captive bred: Captive bred
18) Frog food - how often and what treats: gut-loaded crickets primarily, occasional minnows (but not lately), one pinky mouse so far; food offered daily to every other day
19) How often handled: I take her out to feed her because she won't eat in the substrate, even with tongs, twice had honey bath, and to clean the enclosure
20) High or low traffic area: Pretty low to medium traffic area, but I live alone
21) Enclosure maintenance: Water changes every 2-3 days (but she has never gotten into it); Cleaning monthly, with as-needed poop removal

[Heatheranne]

1) Size of the enclosure: 10 gallon tank
2) # of inhabitants: 1
3) Humidity: 70% - 75%
4) Temperature: 80 degrees F.
5) Water type for misting and soaking dish - distilled treated water
6) Material used for substrate: organic coconut fiber
7) Enclosure setup: 1 artificial plant, shallow water dish, half log
8) Main food source: gut-loaded crickets
9) Vitamins and calcium: dusted crickets - multivitamin once weekly, calcium twice weekly
10) Lighting: Natural lighting or supplemental red light (25 watt) I haven't been using the red light since I bought the heat mat
11) What is being used to maintain the temp: heat mat on the side of the enclosure when temp drops below 80
12) When is the last time she ate: 3 days ago, but ate less than normal
13) Have you found poop lately: yesterday after honey bath
14) Pic already shown
15) How old: unknown, but she was pretty small when I got her
16) How long have you owned her: 3 months
17) Caught or captive bred: Captive bred
18) Frog food - how often and what treats: gut-loaded crickets primarily, occasional minnows (but not lately), one pinky mouse so far; food offered daily to every other day
19) How often handled: I take her out to feed her because she won't eat in the substrate, even with tongs, twice had honey bath, and to clean the enclosure
20) High or low traffic area: Pretty low to medium traffic area, but I live alone
21) Enclosure maintenance: Water changes every 2-3 days (but she has never gotten into it); Cleaning monthly, with as-needed poop removal

I'll post to your answers first then I'll add the pedialyte ratio.

3. Humidity should be at 80%.

5. Change your soaking water and water to moisten substrate to either spring water without chlorine or dechlorinated tap water. You can use distilled water for misting only.

Distilled water has no electrolytes or minerals in it. Soaking your frog in it causes electrolytes to leach out of the frog thereby causing electrolyte imbalances and fluid imbalances.

21. Change water bowl water daily.

15-16. Being she is young, I would recommend keeping her daytime temp at 82'F and changing the water to dechlorinated tap water or spring water.



Pedialyte soak: mix 1 part clear, unflavored pedialyte to 10 parts dechlorinated tap water or spring water, soak frog for 15 minutes. This soak is used for dehydrated and non-eating frogs. The goal is to get the frog eating on her own and this is only a temporary solution. Reptaboost is a nutritional supplement for non-eating frogs which also provides vital electrolytes, and is a good thing to keep on hand.

The stretching of the legs followed by the squeak makes me wonder if she was having intestinal cramps. Did the stool seem constipated? The other thought is electrolyte imbalance such as calcium, sodium, magnesium, or potassium...though you are supplementing.

How did she do last night?

[djmosier]

I'll switch to dechlorinated tap and raise the temp and humidity, and increase the water changes to daily. Yes, the stool seemed constipated. Thank you for the specifics on the Pedialyte soak, and for the recommendations.

I'm concerned about her vitamin and calcium intake. (With not eating, she hasn't gotten any supplements.) My main question is regarding quantity. How many dusted crickets should she be eating - both for calcium and for multivitamin? The directions on the multi states that she should get 12 dusted crickets a week, but if I only give her the multi once a week, then she's only getting about half of the recommended amount, because she doesn't usually eat more than 6 crickets in a feeding.

[djmosier]

To answer the question: She did better last night, I think. I put her in a room that gets very little traffic and left her alone. I plan to do the pedialyte soak this evening and try to feed her.

[Lija]

you also need to change your substrate completely and expand your new one with treated tap. She seems bloated too, so as it stands now I suggest you go for smaller pedialyte ratio 1 part of water - 3-6 parts of pedialyte.

you say she ate 3 days ago and she pooped yesteday, so she can't be considered really non eating, sometimes they eat less sometimes more it is normal, i don't see a big problem here, but use of distilled water is a big big problem, you need to help her to restore normal electrolyte balance with daily pedialyte soaks and add reptiboost ( mixed with water and fed according to the instructions) every day for at least 3-4 days.
and make sure 3 sides of the enclosure are covered.

[djmosier]

I already changed the substrate and 3 sides are already covered. Will do the daily Pedialyte soaks, and have gotten rid of all the distilled water. Thank you.

[djmosier]

I still have the question about the dusted crickets re: amount. Anyone? (Thank you.)

[Lija]

don't worry about dusted crickets amount, it doesn't really matter how many she'll eat, just go with a schedule 2xweek ca/vit d3 and once/week multivitamins, as many as she eats is ok.

[djmosier]

Thank you very much.

[djmosier]

By way of an update, Wacca seems better now after 2 pedialyte soaks (one yesterday and one today). She ate one cricket yesterday and four today, and she seems a little more energetic. She also doesn't look as bloated to me as she did yesterday. I'm hopeful for her recovery. Thank you to everyone who offered advice and suggestions. I really appreciate your help.

[djmosier]

I did all the things that have been suggested and Wacca is showing more energy and eating normally again, with her normal amount of gusto. I noticed tonight, however, that although she is more energetic, she seems to be dragging her back legs, as if there's not enough strength in them to function properly. What could this mean? And if anyone recognizes what may be wrong with her, is it fixable?

[djmosier]

...I've been giving her daily Pedialyte soaks to get her electrolytes back in balance and I have ordered Repta-Boost online. I haven't received it yet.

[Mentat]

Hi Deborah! Heather and Lija have given you good advice and apparently your frog is getting better already! The symptoms you stated do match electrolyte imbalances and that is related to frog "dragging her back legs." Once a situation becomes chronic it will take time for frog to get a full recovery. Bones, tendons, ligaments won't respond to treatments and correct water use overnight. With right conditions, good food, and the soaks things can only get better.

Have you ever tried feeding night crawlers from Walmart's sports section or a local bait & tackle shop? Just make sure they are free of chemicals like fluorescent dyes. Their nutrition level is way better than crickets. Also, try gut loading crickets with veggies or Repashy's Bug Burger. Repashy also makes a meal substitute called Meat Pie that you can add to it's diet for variety (don't add supplements the day you use it). Hope your frog's health keeps improving and good luck !

[Lija]

Carlos, i hate using meat pie i can't grip it properly with tongs, it goes all over the place, gross

[djmosier]

Thanks Carlos. That makes me feel better. At least I'm on the right track. I used to feed Wacca earthworms and she seemed to like them, then she wouldn't eat them anymore. I'll try her on them again and see if she'll eat them. I have Fluker's High Calcium Cricket Diet, which is my crickets' staple. I also throw in a few veggies, as well. Should I continue the daily soaks until she's back to normal? (In other words, can I "overdo" it on the Pedialyte soaks?)

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks Carlos. That makes me feel better. At least I'm on the right track. I used to feed Wacca earthworms and she seemed to like them, then she wouldn't eat them anymore. I'll try her on them again and see if she'll eat them. I have Fluker's High Calcium Cricket Diet, which is my crickets' staple. I also throw in a few veggies, as well. Should I continue the daily soaks until she's back to normal? (In other words, can I "overdo" it on the Pedialyte soaks?)

Everyone has provided you with excellent advice.

The only thing you really need to worry about with the soaks is stress, but you have to know when the benefits outweigh the risks and this is one such situation. Keep giving the soaks until the frog recovers. Offer food daily to see if she will eat. Frogs take a long time to heal so you must be patient and persistant. You seem to be doing well. Keep it up!

[Mentat]

Carlos, i hate using meat pie i can't grip it properly with tongs, it goes all over the place, gross

Yep, I know . I make a cup of mix and use plastic egg container as molds, filling them up around 1/2 in. Sometimes the frogs grab the whole thing, but other times they miss and parts of it fall into substrate. Using it can be frustrating, he, he, he.