Is my gray tree frog sick? New frog owner!!

[tresmorn]

Hi - I joined this forum, because it is so hard to find information on how to care for frogs! In February, my mom caught one of her cats with a frog. He was still alive, I cleaned him up, and he has so far been doing well. I'm pretty sure he is a male (yellow inside of legs, throat patch, and ear drums now), and he was very much a baby when we found him. I have him in a 10 gallon tank with a screen top, some plastic plants, a rock cave, and two bowls (one for meal worms and one for water - he often sits in that to keep moist). The substrate is half coconut bark shredded. I keep this dry, because he gets it stuck all over him if its damp and the other half is a fake moss matt. He eats meal worms, because he had such a hard time catching and eating crickets. He couldn't see them or catch them and most of them died before he could eat them. I was misting him every day, but he really hated that. At this point, I'm not sure if he is too fat or not. He was eating 3 mealworms every other day (sometimes he'd eat two and leave one for the next night, etc.). This week, he's only eaten maybe two meal worms. He's sitting in his plant and looks alert. I picked him up yesterday (he's a wild frog so doesn't really like to be handled that much), and he's moist and he went to the bathroom (pee?) on me (so that seems to be working okay). No lesions or anything weird like that. I would really appreciate any advice anybody would have to offer. His name is Khan. I attaching 3 pictures: one of when I first got him, one that is just plain cool of him making himself white on a paper towel while I cleaned his tank, and one taken a few days ago. Thanks in advance! Beth

[Gentlemangorath]

Well, the not eating is never a good sign. Something that wasn't mentioned though; do you dust the food with calcium powder? It is VERYYYYYY important that you do this, regardless of what you feed him. Next, the projectile pee is something they do when they are afraid (typically if being handled or the like). Nothing major to worry about there. I will say this though, you may want to figure out a way to get him interested in crickets. Mealworms are more of a fatty treat, plus the hard shells of the mealworms can lead to impaction of the frog (I have not experienced this first hand but it sounds most unpleasant). Maybe try getting a giant pair of tweezers and getting him to adjust to feeding from tongs, it adds a fun element of hand feeding your frog, plus ensures that they eat. A little tip if you do switch, frogs are attracted toward movement, so if the crickets aren't wriggling, maybe touch their legs to a surface so they start flailing in order to draw attention to them. Aside from all this, it doesn't sound like there's anything particularly wrong with him, outside of the reduced appetite. Keep an eye on that for sure, and if it doesn't improve within a couple of days, then maybe consider a vet visit or at least a fecal test.

[flybyferns]

Hi Beth,
We will try to help you get to the bottom of this .

I hope you don't mind I have cut /pasted some of your routine care comments form your post above to address 1st

one for meal worms - feeding meal worms can make him fat BUT worse, can possibly cause a digestive obstruction-
get him onto paper towels( to monitor things) and wait a day or two for him to poop -

I would suggest get the poop tested by a herp vet. Since he is wild caught - he most likely has parasites.

coconut bark shredded - should be removed- this as we, can be accidentally ingested and can cause an obstruction
( I would back-up) pull it all clean really god and replace with very damped paper towel for now ( ALWAYS) de-chlorinated water - only

fake moss mat - this MUST be cleaned thoroughly on a very regularly - like 3 time a week - if it cannot be complete disinfected - it should be replaced

I was misting him every day you want to mist the tank/tank walls and decor - not the frog

because he had such a hard time catching and eating crickets make sure the feeder is not too large - try small crickets ( dusted with a routine use of calcium and vitamins such as Re-cal )

doesn't really like to be handled that much
he went to the bathroom (pee?) on me
He never will He peed on you as a defense mechanism -because he was frightened.
Handle him only if necessary - use damped vinyl /powerless gloves. If gloves are not possible wash you hands before and after. He will be less frightened if you scoop him up into a small container to move him. Just be sure to put your hand over the top so he does not take a "leap for freedom" which can cause an injury.

Please answer these questions which will provide additional information to help out !

Trouble in the enclosure or a frog is sick ?
It is great that one seeks advice ! After all, that's why we are here !!!
There actually may be nothing wrong , or conversely, a change in behavior warrants keeping a close eye on your froggy friend !

'patience is a virtue' AND 'time is of the essence'

If there is trouble in the frog enclosure it will be very helpful if one could provide as much of the following information as possible:
THEN---- post this information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog so there is no confusion

1-size of enclosure
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
3-humidity
4-temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6-materials used for substrate
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
8-main food source
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often )
10-lighting
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12-when is the last time he ate
13-have you found poop lately
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog
16-how long have you owned him
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
19- about how often the frog is handled
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
22- has or was the frog properly quarantined


addition useful FF links :
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...caresheet.html
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html

[Mentat]

Welcome to FF; you have a nice little frog ! Agree with what Lynn said.

[tresmorn]

Thank you so much for your responses! I will definitely try to fix all you guys have suggested and get his stool tested. I do have calcium dust for geckos I had in the past, but I didn't even think to use it on him (shame on me!). I will keep you posted on how he does. I do not have any heat on him, because I figured he lives in this climate. I do use tap water, but I live in a small town and the water is not chlorinated. Is there water treatment you buy for these guys? I do have water treatment for my betta fish...

Thanks again!
Beth

[Mentat]

Thank you so much for your responses! I will definitely try to fix all you guys have suggested and get his stool tested. I do have calcium dust for geckos I had in the past, but I didn't even think to use it on him (shame on me!). I will keep you posted on how he does. I do not have any heat on him, because I figured he lives in this climate. I do use tap water, but I live in a small town and the water is not chlorinated. Is there water treatment you buy for these guys? I do have water treatment for my betta fish...

Thanks again!
Beth

Hi Beth! Exo Terra has de-chlorinator for frogs called Aquatize. Plain reptile or fish water conditioners (no aloe) are OK too (I use Seachem). Answering Lynn's posted questions will ensure we identify any problems and offer correct solutions .

[Gentlemangorath]

Hi Beth! Exo Terra has de-chlorinator for frogs called Aquatize. Plain reptile or fish water conditioners (no aloe) are OK too (I use Seachem). Answering Lynn's posted questions will ensure we identify any problems and offer correct solutions .

Are you sure aloe shouldn't be in the dechlorinator? I actually have been using Fluker's brand dechlorinator for about 3 months, and it hasn't been a problem. I asked about this a different time, but didn't get any feedback on it, so I'm still unsure.

Fluker's Dechlorinator Instant Water Conditioner - Supplements & Medications - Reptile - PetSmart - the fluker's dechlorinator

[tresmorn]

I just purchased the Fluker's water conditioner also with no aloe, so please let me know. I am also curious as to what you can use to disinfect their tanks and plants. Last time I cleaned his tank I just rinsed everything off with hot water. I also was able to find some Re-cal. The same company has a vitamin powder, too, but I didn't pick that up, because I didn't know if I should. I will try some crickets tonight, and already have him switched over to paper towels. Is paper toweling something I should keep using as substrate? Or is there something else that is preferred? Thanks so much! Beth

[tresmorn]

UPDATE: Khan is doing great!!! He had a normal poo on the paper towel, and he ate 5 calcium-dusted crickets last night and tonight. He's still sitting in his plant, and I can't believe he just eats right out of the forceps. I swear if he could talk, he would inform me what an idiot I was - feeding him the wrong stuff in the wrong way!

Beth

[tresmorn]

Hi once again.

I am still not sure my frog is doing that well. I'm thinking he is looking a little thin, and he seems to want to climb up the side of the tank a lot. He seems active and alert. He seems to be spending a lot of time in his water bowl. Still not eating that well, but I must confess I really suck at feeding him crickets. I have a small plastic cricket house with the flukers powdered food and the gel water, yet most of them die before I can even feed them to him. And I really struggle to catch them with the tongs without killing them. This week he's eaten 2 small crickets one day, nothing the next, one the third day, a mealworm the next day, nothing yesterday, and tonight I bought him medium-sized crickets (thinking they might be easier to handle...they are not!), and he ate one. I left 2 more in the tank with him, but he seems to be just sitting on his rock tonight. I did have a fecal checked, and there were no parasites. I am curious as to whether this is because it's mating season? He also never makes any sound, so maybe he's not even a boy?

I will also answer these questions as best as I can:
1-size of enclosure - 10 gallon glass tank
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?) - 1
3-humidity - unsure. I am now misting the sides and plants every other day
4-temp - room temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - tap water now treated with a dechlorinator
6-materials used for substrate - currently papertowels - is this always what people use? Or is there something else???
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv - rock cave, plastic bowls (one for food and one for water, frog cone plant, 2 plastic plants with suction cups. All were soaked in hot water before setting up the tank
8-main food source - mealworms/crickets
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) - just calcium - have been trying to dust the crickets before feeding
10-lighting - natural
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - nothing
12-when is the last time he ate - today
13-have you found poop lately - yes and appears normal amount
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine - see above
15- how old is the frog - 4 months???
16-how long have you owned him - since February
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred - wild caught - I only kept him because it was the dead of winter when he was found in the house; a cat had him
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats - ???
19- about how often the frog is handled - only 5 times ever
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area - moderate - in a corner but when I'm home the dogs walk by his tank
21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc) - I have cleaned his tank twice before he got sick. I wasn't sure what to use to clean, so I just rinsed everything with hot water. Water bowl is changes/washed out frequently (again no soap or anything), and his favorite frog cone plant. Since switching to paper towels, I've changed the bottom a few times.
22- has or was the frog properly quarantined - ??? I would guess no?

Thanks again!
Beth

[Heatheranne]

Hi once again.

I am still not sure my frog is doing that well. I'm thinking he is looking a little thin, and he seems to want to climb up the side of the tank a lot. He seems active and alert. He seems to be spending a lot of time in his water bowl. Still not eating that well, but I must confess I really suck at feeding him crickets. I have a small plastic cricket house with the flukers powdered food and the gel water, yet most of them die before I can even feed them to him. And I really struggle to catch them with the tongs without killing them. This week he's eaten 2 small crickets one day, nothing the next, one the third day, a mealworm the next day, nothing yesterday, and tonight I bought him medium-sized crickets (thinking they might be easier to handle...they are not!), and he ate one. I left 2 more in the tank with him, but he seems to be just sitting on his rock tonight. I did have a fecal checked, and there were no parasites. I am curious as to whether this is because it's mating season? He also never makes any sound, so maybe he's not even a boy?

I will also answer these questions as best as I can:
1-size of enclosure - 10 gallon glass tank
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?) - 1
3-humidity - unsure. I am now misting the sides and plants every other day
4-temp - room temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - tap water now treated with a dechlorinator
6-materials used for substrate - currently papertowels - is this always what people use? Or is there something else???
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv - rock cave, plastic bowls (one for food and one for water, frog cone plant, 2 plastic plants with suction cups. All were soaked in hot water before setting up the tank
8-main food source - mealworms/crickets
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) - just calcium - have been trying to dust the crickets before feeding
10-lighting - natural
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - nothing
12-when is the last time he ate - today
13-have you found poop lately - yes and appears normal amount
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine - see above
15- how old is the frog - 4 months???
16-how long have you owned him - since February
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred - wild caught - I only kept him because it was the dead of winter when he was found in the house; a cat had him
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats - ???
19- about how often the frog is handled - only 5 times ever
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area - moderate - in a corner but when I'm home the dogs walk by his tank
21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc) - I have cleaned his tank twice before he got sick. I wasn't sure what to use to clean, so I just rinsed everything with hot water. Water bowl is changes/washed out frequently (again no soap or anything), and his favorite frog cone plant. Since switching to paper towels, I've changed the bottom a few times.
22- has or was the frog properly quarantined - ??? I would guess no?

Thanks again!
Beth

Hi Beth,

Welcome to the forum. I'll see if I can help. Here is a nice Caresheet too...
http://www.frogforum.net/content/gra...-breeding-120/

1. Is the 10 gallon tank turned upright? They like a tall tank. This may help. Exo Terra and Zilla both sell 12x12x18" tanks that may work better for you.

3. You should have a humidity gauge (hygrometer) to monitor and maintain the proper humidity for her. Usually misting the tank twice a day with treated tap water or spring water will do the trick. You can also use distilled water for misting (but not for soaking or moistening substrate).

4. You should have a thermometer gauge to monitor and maintain her tank temp. Most grays will tolerate an average room temp in the 70's. See the care sheet above for specifics and the proper temp ranges for her. Warming up the tank to the upper 70's during day light can help to boost her metabolism and digestion and will help to make her hungrier. They do sometimes eat less during breeding season, especially if they hear calling from their species.

5. As you have already learned, dechlorinating tap water is a must. You can also use spring water. Avoid bottled drinking water, untreated tap water or distilled water for soaking bowl and substrate. Chlorine and chloramines are toxic to them. Soaking in distilled water can pull electrolytes out of them.

6. It is best to use paper towels while we are monitoring them. Change daily. Coconut fiber (Eco Earth) is a good substrate that holds moisture and is safer if ingested than other substrates. You can also used plain, unfertilized plantation soil without osmolite. Change coco fiber monthly unless you have a false bottom, which allows for drainage of water, allowing more time between substrate changes. Avoid coconut husk/bark, sand, loose moss, or wood shavings. They can all cause intestinal impaction and death if accidentally ingested.

8. Stick with crickets, cut earthworm pieces, or small dubia roaches. Mealworms have chitin in their segments which are hard to pass through the intestines and can cause constipation or impaction. Larger wingless fruit flies can also work. Food should be no larger than the distance between her eyes.

The Flukers cricket food does tend to kill the crickets. I use it also. Try offering your crickets fresh carrots, oranges, apples, bananas, and/or romaine lettuce rinsed with dechlorinated water. They will also enjoy Cheerios. You will find the crickets live longer.

9. Continue to lightly dust the food with calcium with vitamin D3 every other day. Purchase an amphibian multivitamin powder and lightly dust one day a week, not on the same day as the calcium. The frogs also need the trace amounts of vitamins and minerals in the mvi to perform vital bodily functions, just like we do. Repashy brand mvi is dosed for daily dusting.

You could try the feeding bowl method if you'd like. Use a 1 1/2" or taller glass bowl for feedings. The dollar store has some good choices (I got mine at Dollar Tree...heart shaped candy bowls. they work great). Dust and drop in her food. This will allow you to monitor how much she is eating. Remove any uneaten food in the morning and place back into the keeper so they may continue to eat and gut-load. A good hot water rinse of the bowl will remove any insect feces, calcium, or mvi residue. Your frog will learn to come to the bowl to eat and you won't squoosh any trying to get them into the tweezers. Their natural instinct is to attack the moving prey. The wiggling and running around of the critters in the bowl should entice her.

10. So long as they have lighting on a day/night schedule, natural lighting is fine.

11. To increase the tank heat you can use a UTH (under tank heater) placed on one side wall, a ceramic heat emitter bulb of 50 watt or less used on the screen too with a dome lamp, a 50 watt or less red bulb, or a black/blue night viewing bulb of 50 water or less. It is best to get a done lamp with a dimmer so you can adjust the heat level as needed. You will need a thermometer gauge placed at leaf level. You will need to mist more often when adding and heat bulbs, as they will dry the tank out.

17. Wild caught amphibians can often have a tougher time adjusting to captivity than captive bred, but it can be done if proper husbandry is followed and stress is minimized.

18. Offer food nightly.

20. Minimizing stress is very important for their health. Try keeping her in a nice quiet area with minimal traffic. Adding background coverings to the back and 2 side walks will help her to feel secure. Having a good number of plants to hide in will also help.

Your frog may still be too young to croak. Croaking is a sure sign of a male. Males will also develop little dark inner pads on their thumbs when old enough to breed. Females will grow larger than males.

I hope this helps . Please feel free to ask more questions as needed. If your frog continues to not eat, let us know. She may need further intervention.

Pick up and have on hand some unflavored plain Pedialyte and some amphibian/reptile liquid calcium supplement just in case. I also keep Reptaboost on hand. It's a nutritional supplement for if they quit eating.

The goal is to keep her eating on her own by adjusting things to her needs. The happier she is with the least amount of stress will allow her to take care of herself .

Please keep us posted.