Starting and keeping pacmans on a worm and pinkie diet?...

[Evan Tzimopoulos]

Hello, i'm new here and just wanted to ask a quick question, but first my statement. I have decided to buy a pac-man this up coming october at the reptile expo in manchester NH, but i'm doing a bunch of research before i purchase one, i have a tank large enough and i know exactly how i'm going to set it up, the only thing is... i really don't like crickets at all and i want to start her off from a baby only eating worms and then go onto pinkies, guppies and other worms such as wax worms as she gets older, i want to know if this is fully possible and if i can pull it off because i have no problem with the wiggly squirmers, its the creepy crawlers that get me, so anyway... any help would be appreciated,... will i be able to start my lil girl off and keep her on a steady worm diet using the tong method or simply placing her in another feeding tank? again any helpfull hints or words are welcomed, thank you.

[WhitesTreeFrog]

Pinkies are not a stable food. Night crawlers are. Pinkies are high in fat and should be fed about 1-2 a month. Crickets and night crawlers are really their only stable food


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[WhitesTreeFrog]

I would place them in the tank for now. If you are new I would suggest getting the care sheet off this website. What tank setup will you be doing


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[Mentat]

Hello Evan and welcome to FF . From reading your thread it appears to me you have not read the Pacman Care Article at forum (Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding) and recommend you do so. Also, be aware there is information, videos, etc. on the internet that could create health issues long term for your frog if followed.

If bugs (crickets, roaches, etc.) bother you lots; you can desensitize yourself slowly by starting with limited exposure actions, like just looking at them in store bins, and increasing exposure in steps until you can handle them with gloves and tweezers.

You can raise a Pacman on a diet of dusted Night Crawlers. If starting with a baby frog, can cut the worms around size of distance between frog eyes from worm pointy end. The worms will heal and survive until next use. Dust CA X 2 and vitamins X 1 weekly on different days with a skip day in between.

Fish are a source of parasites to your frogs. All pinced worms (waxworms, mealworms, etc.) are hard to digest due to their chitin exoskeleton. Also, they are high in fat and can hurt your frog digestive system with the pincers. Mice are hard to digest and high in fat. Even those that use rodents recommend limiting it to only one per month.

[Lija]

welcome to the forum, so glad you do your research first!

if you don't want to do crickets, that's all right, they are not that nutritious anyway. you can do dusted as per Carlos recommendations pieces of nightcrawler as a staple when a frog is little with occasional wax worms, hornworms. Mice can be fed only once a month, but a frog can be totally fine without any mice ever. you can get pacman food and use it once in a while too.
my concern however is that you are saying you have a tank that is big enough, you should have a tank that is small enough for a baby

[jelkins]

Frogs of the genus Ceratophrys are sit-and-wait predators, partially concealing themselves in the leaves of the forest floor and remaining motionless most of the time (Duellman and Lizana 1994). When prey approaches, the animal quickly attacks, usually swallowing the prey whole (Duellman and Lizana 1994). Ceratophrys ornata consumes primarily vertebrates; stomach content analysis of thirty-four specimens from Uruguay included 78.5% anurans, 11.7% passerine birds, 7.7% rodents, and 0.3% snakes, leaving only 1.8% as “other” (Basso 1990).

[Pyxiefan001]

Frogs of the genus Ceratophrys are sit-and-wait predators, partially concealing themselves in the leaves of the forest floor and remaining motionless most of the time (Duellman and Lizana 1994). When prey approaches, the animal quickly attacks, usually swallowing the prey whole (Duellman and Lizana 1994). Ceratophrys ornata consumes primarily vertebrates; stomach content analysis of thirty-four specimens from Uruguay included 78.5% anurans, 11.7% passerine birds, 7.7% rodents, and 0.3% snakes, leaving only 1.8% as “other” (Basso 1990).

Interesting. I'd be interested to know what Lija and Colleen'll make out of this.

[Heatheranne]

^ It is likely a true statement.

If crickets bother you, Mentat's suggestion of desensitizing yourself is very helpful. I had to do the same.

Earth worms and night crawlers are a good source of nutrition and when calcium/D3 and multivitamins are used, your frog can be healthy. I would avoid fish. You can even buy dye free/scent free night crawlers at Walmart. Worms are easier to digest and are healthier than crickets actually and are a better staple food. Avoid mealworms. Waxworms and pinkies should only be a rare treat, as they are not of great nutrition.

A good thing to do is to follow a good staple diet with supplements and to minimize unhealthy snacks.

Crickets are often given because they are ready available. They actually are not very nutritious. This is why we feed crickets healthy foods (gut-load them). It's really like feeding your frogs healthy fruits and veggies in a indirect way.

Roaches can also be used as a staple, though they may make you squeamish also. They are surprisingly clean critters, which do not stink like crickets and are very easy to breed and maintain. They too are more nutritious than crickets. Same principle applies...what your bugs eat, your frog eats .

I use a nice variety of freshly molted dubia roaches, night crawlers and occasionally crickets for my pacs. They prefer the roaches most.

Red wiggler worms secrete a foul mucous when injured. Many frogs will refuse them after tasting them. They also may associate earth worms with that taste, after eating a red. I tried the reds and my pacs refused all worms for awhile. It took them a bit to try worms again. After a few times of eating the night crawlers, with a little coaxing, they like them again and now sloop them right down like spaghetti .

[GrifTheGreat]

You can't compare captive care diet to a wild frog's diet. There is a huge difference. Wild frogs live much shorter lives partially duebto their diet and predation as well as the many hazards of habitat loss and polution.

I have read this article many times and I will not tell anyone that they have to follow whatever feeding method I suggest, but consider that in the wild it is about survival. There diet consists of these items because it is what is available. They will also eat large ants with nasty bites and stings, but does that mean you should feed the frog these ants? No. In the wild food is not handed to them and therefore they must eat what is available to survive. This is also why their diet mostly consists of other frogs. Their very design is that of a frog eater.

It is best to provide a healthier diet that promotes long healthy life rather than trying to mimic the diet of an animal that is fighting for survival.

[Lija]

these are no news.
Grif said it all I'll add.
there is a certainly a difference of a frog living in captivity and a wild, a big difference in lifestyle, activity level and of course amount of predators, this their diet in captivity has to reflect it. That is understandable that wild caught frogs diet consists mostly of vertebrates, out of large food items in general. There are not that many cricket/roach type of foods roaming around to satisfy needs of a large frog, thus it has option to sit and wait for food and be small=be eaten or go for large food items that will be satisfy the belly for longer. in a wild it eats anything that is moving and can be eaten. Analysis showed that their diet consist mainly out of frogs and looking at fat content they are not even close to such comparing to rodents. There is another aspect to this, they eat other frogs not just to satisfy their hunger, it is about survival and the less frogs are remaining the more space and food will be left for remaining ones. Same principle apply to many many frog species and not just frogs, bigger ones will eat smaller ones, that is what tadpoles do too.

[DVirginiana]

I'd also like to add that the only time these frogs are really easy to find in the wild is during breeding season when they are all out looking for pools to mate in. The rest of the time, they are buried to their eyes in soil. I imagine that to get any decent sample size, scientists would have to collect their specimens during mating season (otherwise you could dig up acres of rainforest looking for the right species and age-group of frog!). I seriously doubt that breeding season diets (when they are in a different environment, at the same time as many other amphibian species seeking out rainy-season mating pools) is the same as their diet the rest of the time.

Just a warning; a baby may not take nightcrawlers at first. It took a while for mine to go for anything that wasn't actually crawling. It may take a few feedings of crickets before you can get yours to eat nightcrawlers regularly (some frogs love them immediately though, so maybe you won't have to worry).

Also, if you want to use fish as a treat (once or twice a month max) most petstores sell frozen silversides. These are a safe species to feed, and the frozen ones don't have a parasite risk. I prefer these as treats to mice, as they are slightly less fatty but my frog still seems to appreciate the 'real meat'.