Question about calcium

[djmosier]

My Pacman's main staple is gut-loaded crickets. (She won't eat earthworms or wigglers anymore, for some reason). My question is, if I'm feeding my crickets high-calcium cricket feed, do I still need to dust them with calcium, or is the amount in the feed enough?

[Mentat]

You still need to dust them twice a week for a growing frog and 1x a week for adult. Red wigglers can produce a nasty tasting slime when distressed. If your frog got a mouthful of that; it identifies worms as foul food and won't eat them.

[djmosier]

I've only ever fed her earthworms until yesterday. When she quit eating those, I decided to try her on red wigglers. She wouldn't go near it, so I'm not sure why, unless earthworms emit a foul taste when distressed, as well. In any case, I don't really care, as long as gut-loaded crickets are enough for main staple, with occasional fish for a change (she LOVES minnows!) and a pinky mouse about once a month. Thanks for the answer to CA question. By the way, I just noticed that the calcium I've been using is without D3. Is that okay?

[djmosier]

...and I'm assuming that if she's 3" SVL, she's still growing. I've never seen an adult, and don't know how big pacman frogs get.

[Gnag the nameless]

I'm just going to warn on this, because I don't want anyone to experience what I did when I slacked on the dusting:

DO NOT SLACK ON THE DUSTING!!!

I did, and my Green frog (Rana Clamitans) nearly developed Metabolic Bone Deficiency. Even though I stopped it in time, her immune system severly weakened, and she must've had some Giardia (Parasitic Protozoa) in her system, because soon after she became lethargic due to it, and developed a full-on infestation of Giardia, which prettymuch stole the food she should've been getting. As I was treating her for Giardia, I also had to fight off Tetany (Lack of calcium = weakness, lack of hopping, can lead to MBD) at the same time. In total, it took me 2 months to fully cure her. It was a very horrible experience, I had to forcefeed her every night for about 6 weeks, and keep her in a small, 5 gallon quarantine tank. We both hated the entire experience, and I don't want anyone else or any other frog to ever have to experience what me and Bumpy did.

As for the lack of Vitamin D3 in the dusting, as long as you've a UVB light, you'll be fine without the Vitamin D3 in the dusting.

Also, as for the problem with Red Wrigglers, you may want to try looking around a website, store, or even your garden for Nightcrawlers. They're larger, typically paler, and much more nutritious than Red Wrigglers. Just make sure you get them from a additive/fertilizer/pesticide free source. I can typically tell Red Wriggler from Nightcrawler due to size, color, and if they produce a foul scent or not. You can try wiggling them in front of your frogs face to encourage him/her to eat them, either with your hands or a pair of tongs.

[djmosier]

Thank you.

[Heatheranne]

Yes, they are correct. You should dust every other feeding with calcium with vita D3 and one day a week with a multivitamin. Be sure to renew your supplements every 3 months.

[Gnag the nameless]

Heather, quick question:

What happens when the supplements expire after 3 months? Do they become toxic, or is it simply unhealthy to use them?

[Heatheranne]

They become less effective. You cannot guarantee their dosing. I had a frog develop tetany (symptoms of low calcium) on a supplement that was not expired, but was past the 3 month after opened safe range. It was easily corrected with liquid calcium supplement soaks and by replacing my powdered supplement. I actually switched brands also, as recommended by Dr. Frye.

[Gnag the nameless]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm sorry if I'm making this thread wander off topic a bit, but what brand do you use? I use Exo Terra, but I'm willing to switch over if it's better for my frogs.

[JeffreH]

I personally use the Rep-Cal line of supplements; have always been pleased with the quality and their products' ability to stick to feeders 'just right.' Most calcium supplements are essentially just calcium carbonate (typically derived from oyster shell), and in my opinion, as long as you are dusting on the right schedule, just about any type of reptile/amphibian calcium supplement should be fine. Calcium citrate can also be used and is more readily metabolized that calcium carbonate; but I find it unnecessary unless trying to boost calcium reserves for breeding animals or those recovering from deficiency (calcium glubionate is preferred for severe deficiencies).

Rep-Cal's multivitamin (Herptivite) also utilizes beta carotene instead of retinol as a vitamin A source, which essentially eliminates fear of vitamin A toxicity. I've been using their calcium, cal+D3, and mutlivitamin products for the last decade and my herps have all flourished. But everyone has their favorites ; )

[Mentat]

If your CA product has no D3 do replace it with one that does. Agree with Jeff in that Rep-Cal is one of best out there. I use Repashy's which is another good one. Repashy has a product that mixes CA with multi-vitamins in a daily dosage formula and plan to try that one next (Calcium Plus) .

[Heatheranne]

I use Repcal Ca++/D3 also and Herptivite.

I switched from Flukers to Repcal after my frog still developed tetany, though it was also past the 3 months time frame so it is difficult to assess if it was brand vs time.

[djmosier]

My CA doesn't have D3, but my multi does. Do I still need to switch the CA?

[Heatheranne]

I would say yes. The calcium is not properly absorbed without it and a good portion of the calcium will pass through the stomach/GI tract unused. The amount in the mvi is likely less than they need. You would have to check the dosing to know for sure.

Here is a discussion we had a short while back that you may find useful.
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...ut-vit-d3.html

[demon amphibians]

also remember the natural way is always good to feed your feeders romain lettuce and oranges. they contain more calcuim then milk.