She should be dead...

[ejh805]

I'm still relatively new to frogs and had full knowledge of just how dangerous bark chunks are to frogs...
However, a couple of weeks ago I bought the wrong product in bulk. Upon showing up, I realized I'd bought the wrong thing but could no longer afford the correct substrate immediately. So I replaced my soiled cocofiber with it, thinking the milkies would be fine a couple weeks until my next paycheck.

Please don't chew me out. I have beaten myself up OVER and OVER about this. To any new owners wondering if any amount of time on "bark" substrate is okay, IT IS NOT. I WAS WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. And my frog SHOULD be DEAD because of it. But by some miracle she is NOT. I am hoping that whatever internal damage was done was not SO SEVERE that she will die slowly.



This is a picture of my frog and the piece of substrate she somehow managed to swallow and regurgitate. I noticed something was wrong this morning and gave her a soak. Intending to give her another when I got home for my lunch break, I took her out of her tank and noticed a little piece of something sticking out of her mouth. She was squirming and pulling at it with her feet and opening and closing her mouth, so to help her, I held onto it. She wiggled and squirmed pulling her head back and moved her whole self backwards away from it revealing this huge piece of bark as big as her. Her stomach did not come out as I've read happens. However, after getting the bark out, she swallowed a lot for about 20 seconds then went back to her perky, alert self.

Shes now in a hospital tank in a warm, quiet room. What do I need to do to make sure she is going to live? Something that big in comparison had to do some internal damage I won't be feeding her for several days at least, unless someone advises otherwise.

[Bombina Bob]

thank god your frog is alive! this is probably the best
evidence to new frog owners on how dangerous bark
can be to ANY frogs.

[ejh805]

I know
I feel horrible! Can you imagine swallowing and throwing up a branch as big as your torso?? That would be so painful

[Lija]

so so happy you saw her and helped her! it seems you did everything right and as for bark, I'm sure we can point a thing or 2 that we did ourselves and we shouldn't have. what happened is in the past, you learned for it, it all that matters.
she should be fine now, but I'm sure the stomach did go out but not the whole way and she fixed it herself by swallowing. of course the damage might have happened, but their stomach can stretch a lot, hopefully it is all good. I would soak her in melafix once a day for a week just in case of any bacterial infection is happening. yes not feeding for a few days is good idea, give it time to heal itself and when you're back to feeding don't do big amounts at a time.

[ejh805]

Lija, I'll pick up the melafix omw home from work. How many parts melafix to water should be used for soaking?

Thank you so much for the advice. She's been eating crickets and small hornworms. Will these be okay when she starts eating again, or should I pick up wax worms?

[Mentat]

...How many parts melafix to water should be used for soaking?...

Follow same treatment instructions on bottle for fish to make soaking solution (Melafix comes in various concentrations). Easiest way is to prepare 1 gal. (keep bottle in dark) and use as required for a week. When done with treatment discard the left over solution and you are done .

[ejh805]

Thank you!!

[Lija]

do as Carlos said for melafix, as for food, use whatever soft foods you can get at first, small hornworms, wax worms, silkworms, whatever she eats. if she is all right, she should be crazy hungry when you offer food in a few days, don't over do it, try small amounts a day and see how it'll go.

[ejh805]

By chance, does anyone know at what size these guys can be kept over water instead of substrate?

[Bombina Bob]

for substrate for tree frogs you can use paper towel if you don't want
substrate ingested, im not sure if they can be kept over water

[ejh805]

I've read that these can, like whites.

[Lija]

never had milks, no idea, but why would you rather have water then substrate? just out if curiosity?

[ejh805]

Aesthetics mostly. And if it's safe I don't see why not. There would be plants and other things for the frogs to climb out of the water with.

[Lija]

I'm just thinking about water being stagnant = bacteria and excessive protozoa, would you use filter of some sorts? i should visit vivarium section sometime

[ejh805]

Oh yeah. It would definitely have a filter. And probably a waterfall type feature.

[flybyferns]

Hi
I have seen them kept above water. I would be careful w/ froglets kept above water as they should be fed daily. You want to be sure thet are proficient hunters. Plus, don't forget; if kept over water you are going to have a lot of crickets in the water ALL of the time! Yuck. If not water, frequently changed cocoa fiber. For now however, I would use dampened towels to keep an eye on his poop since she has recently tried to swallow an entire tree trunk

When arranging their enclosure , keep in mind these frogs breed ( only ) in holes in trees. They need hiding spots at the top of the cage with plants, perches etc. I recently saw a great idea.......A large lizard hide siliconed to the glass. It had a pothos vine passing through it. A cute little pair of milks were poking their heads out. Be sure the inside if the hide is smooth so they are not injured.

I understand they are big eaters.

Hope all goes well. Keep us posted.
Lynn

[ejh805]

Good news! Found poop

[Mentat]

Glad she appears to be fine. If doing water bottom have to provide many cricket ramps or they will drown a lot and overtax filter. Also, drown crickets will not feed your frogs and the less agressive/efficient hunters could go hungry and become malnourished overtime.

Someone in forum (Heather maybe?) keeps tree frogs over a towel cloth bottom she replaces daily and washes in hot water on clothes washer .

[ejh805]

Came home today and found two more chunks of bark on the paper towels near her. So I guess we still aren't quite out of the woods.

[Heatheranne]

Glad to hear she's passing the pieces. Keep a close eye on her. You are lucky. Monitor for any blood and be sure to keep her well hydrated with misting and soaks...it will help her to pass them easier. If she becomes bloated you can also do honey soaks. It would be a warm dechlorinated water or spring water soak with about 2-3 drops of plain honey in the water for about 15 minutes, followed by a regular soak to remove any honey residue from the external skin. It works as a natural emollient and helps with constipation. The other cure is surgery so let's pray she continues to pass the rest of the pieces. Crossing fingers for you!

Very pretty frog, by the way .

I use paper towels changed daily. When they are sick I wipe everything down daily with hot water. Otherwise, I wipe down the glass sides every few days, mostly to prevent water spots.