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Thread: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

  1. #1
    GrnTreeFrg
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    Default Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    So I am sure this seems like a stupid question as I know cat bacteria is most likely harmful to frogs. However, I am trying to figure out the likelihood of my two American green tree frogs having died because of cat bacteria.

    I had these green tree frogs for a few years. They were both rescues and so their actual age was unknown. They did come from the wild, both were hit by vehicles. I saved them, took them to the vet and nursed them back to health. I was told not to re-release and so I have had them for a few years and was quite attached to them.
    I foster animals and never until recently had a problem with the foster cats bothering my tank critters. Well, right now I have a devil cat. His previous owner was incompetent and was going to have him put to sleep at only 9 months old because of behavioral problems. However, he was taken from his mother at only 4 weeks old, kept isolated for his whole life from other animals and people (so never learned how to properly behave) and was declawed (which has made him more apt to freak out when cornered); so I can see where his problems originate from and knew that he could be rehabilitated and saved. He behaves much better now than when I first got him but he still has issues including pestering my tank critters.
    I do my best to keep him out of the room I kept my frogs in but he is amazingly sneaky and I would find him sitting on top of my tank frequently. He even broke into my cricket tank a few times.
    I've managed to keep him out of that room for over a week now and my frogs didn't show any signs of being sick but they just suddenly died within a day of each other. They were kept the same way I've always kept them as I was told to do by the vet I saw. Distilled water, 2-3 large crickets daily each (more of less depending on their appetite), D3 and multivitamin provided, room kept between 70-80 degrees, just a basic light, kept in a 10 gallon tank.
    As they were rescues, I don't really plan on getting more but I am pretty bummed out. I just want to know what the possibility of this cat having shed bacteria from his paws into the tank and killing my frogs. I can't do anything now for my guys but I would like to have at least a guess of why they died.
    I feel awful that I may have indirectly caused their deaths. If anyone has had a similar experience or any inclination of what could have happened, I would love to hear it.

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrnTreeFrg View Post
    ...I've managed to keep him out of that room for over a week now and my frogs didn't show any signs of being sick but they just suddenly died within a day of each other. They were kept the same way I've always kept them as I was told to do by the vet I saw. Distilled water, 2-3 large crickets daily each (more of less depending on their appetite), D3 and multivitamin provided, room kept between 70-80 degrees, just a basic light, kept in a 10 gallon tank....
    Sorry for your frog's death . No idea if the cat had anything to do with it; but got a question about the distilled water use. If used to spray tank that is OK. However if used in frog water dish, that is a bad idea since frogs will loose minerals and electrolyte to water when soaking. Only good water for soaking is dechlorinated tap or spring bottled water.
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  4. #3
    armoworrior
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    I use declorinated tap water with jellybean she seems to love it.

  5. #4
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    I am confused and it doesn't happen often lol
    what exactly is in question? what do you mean by cat bacteria exactly? cat sitting on a top of the cage can not cause frogs death, unless he was hunting them and scratched, it went unnoticed + additional stress. but since he is declawed ( poor guy) he can't scratch, so that is out of question.
    let's take one step at a time. if you are wondering what might caused frogs death we need more information and as Carlos said distilled water is a big big red flag here.
    so far that is what i have from your post:
    -both frogs lived together for a 2 years and are WC, good job on saving them by the way!
    have you ever done fecal tests for them and got them treated?
    -you used distilled water - always, both everything?
    how exactly everything happened? were they just fine, eating and looking healthy and happy one day and dead the next?
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  6. #5
    GrnTreeFrg
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    Sorry about the confusion of the water. It is dechlorinated. I just have a tendency to say/write distilled. I found them in FL when I stayed there a semester with family as at the time I was interning at a zoo. My family had well water and the vet I had taken them to said that was fine. So I didn't switch to dechlorinated till I went back home. I honestly have no clue what was done to them at the vet as this was a few years back and I was new to frogs (I have always preferred inverts). All I know was that the vet was recommended to me by the zoo vet and was apparently some frog guru; that and it cost me an arm and a leg each time I brought a frog in (brought a total of 5). Where I am now, the vets either won't see frogs at all or they don't know much.
    The cat does have back claws but I know from experience that they don't have to scratch to spread certain things. Don't get me wrong, I love cats, but they have some nasty feet. I was worried about the possibility of germ shedding from the feet after say using the litter box and into my tank or on my frogs considering the delicacy and permeability of their skin; I did find litter in the actual tank as the cat tends to track it around. Maybe I am just grasping at straws though as I am sure it could be any number of things.
    They were just fine one day and then I noticed the next that one was on the ground dead (my Buddah boy). The other (Frank) was still hanging out and acting normal. I did remove him from the tank though and put him in one I use for quarantine just in case. He ate fine but I did call a knowledgeable vet that is 3 hours away. I was told to keep an eye on him and that he was most likely fine but we did make an appointment just in case for a few days away (the earliest I could get in). The next day he was dead. I just find it so bizarre. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about frogs would have seen some sort of sign that I perhaps missed.
    This has reminded me though that I need to cancel the vet appointment.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    Sorry for your losses.

    Not that it completely rules it out, but my cats have been sleeping on my frog cages for years with no issues. You had an appointment with a knowledgeable vet? Would they be able to perform a necropsy for you? This might have the best chance of a definitive answer.

  8. #7
    GrnTreeFrg
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    Ah, I see. Well I guess it doesn't rule it out but it is pretty good evidence that maybe it's not the cause of their death. I am so anal about keeping the cats off my tanks but I guess it's not that big of a deal. I wish I knew why the died and have been wracking my head.
    Now that I think of it, the only thing I have changed is where I get their crickets from.
    Poor little guys.
    I did not think about the necropsy but that would have been a possibility but I have already buried them down by the creek. I could dig them back up but with the heat here, I think they may be a bit decomposed. I keep a few preserved specimens (I'm a zoology student) but since I considered them pets, I buried them instead.

  9. #8
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    Not much to go with; unless new cricket source was contaminated. Did you feed the same crickets to other animals? If so, are they OK or showed any signs of problems?
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  10. #9
    GrnTreeFrg
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    It could be a possibility. The inverts don't eat as much. My tarantula ate only two from my most recent batch, the frogs ate the rest.
    My tarantula seems fine but it is even harder to see if they are sick than frogs. I will keep an eye on her though. I've never heard of crickets being contaminated but now that I think about it I see how it could happen.
    Thanks for everyone's help. I think I just wanted some bit of closure. For some people they may just be frogs but I really cared about them. Them dying wasn't as bad as loosing my 17 yo cat last year but it definitely made my day awful.
    I'm thinking no more frogs for me for awhile, rescue or not.

  11. #10
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    at any rate a cat has absolutely nothing to do with both frogs death other adding some stress. I have 3 cats, 2 of them constantly sleeping on tanks, one is too stupid to figure out that it is warm and nice up there the only problem with that is when a cat is big and fat and mesh on top weak.
    so many things could have gone wrong with frogs, it seems you gave them nice home and did everything right, but they are from a wild, you don't know their age, may be time just come, may be something else, too hard to say now.
    i don't think to anyone on here frogs are just frogs, we care very deeply for them, most of us experienced loss too, and know first hand how hard that is.
    so sorry for your loss.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  12. #11
    GrnTreeFrg
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    Thanks for everything
    I at least feel a bit better. I pride myself on the level of care I give to my critters.
    At least everyone here understands. I just got eye rolls from everyone who knows me when lamenting that my little boys died; even from so called other animal people.
    Thanks again for the advice/help

  13. #12
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cat bacteria harmful to frogs?

    you're welcome!
    Quote Originally Posted by GrnTreeFrg View Post
    At least everyone here understands. I just got eye rolls from everyone who knows me when lamenting that my little boys died; even from so called other animal people.
    that is why there are so many of us who are here constantly more or less - to talk frogs with people who get it.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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