White's tree frog help

[Sticky]

Hello!
I am looking into getting a white's tree frog, and i have been doing a lot of research
I have a few questions, if that's alright.

I will be getting a 34 gallon tall terrarium for him, and have seen lots of different things online about substrate. Leaf litter, coconut fiber, paper towels, moss... which is best? Wouldn't coconut fiber stick to his feet? There are 2 different kinds, i see...loose powder fiber, and the kind on blocks. What substrate do you use? I think i would like to use paper towels, if that is a good choice. No mess, plus easy cleaning! i could replace it once or twice weekly, if that would be good. I am not going for looks in my terrarium, i just want a happy healthy frog!

What kind of light should i use? I see that he needs a heating light as well as a night light...would anybody be able to link me to a good light system? And how humid should the tank be?

And lastly, what other things besides a terrarium, substrate, and a light should i be buying? I am going to the reptile store this weekend, and would like to make a list of things to buy

Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

[Mentat]

Hi and welcome to FF! Here is a link with lots of info on their care to get you started right: Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea .

[Sticky]

Thank you, Carlos! That's a great article.
Do you know if frogs do better with a certain kind of substrate? It mentions a few options, but i'm not quite sure if one is better than another? would paper towels be a good choice?
Maybe i missed it, but i'm not sure that the article mentioned lighting? if somebody wouldn't mind helping me out in figuring out the best lighting for my terrarium, that would be great.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I have always used eco earth in the bag and not the brick.

For the whites I had I used a exo terra CFL hood with two 60W 65K white CFL
on a timer that cut off at 5PM and back on at 6am
I also found a LED light bar at lowes that works with a lighting system that will
produce just about any color of light. it has red , green , Blue LEDS in it
it was 20 bucks with out the controller.
I am a hacker so I was able to use a small DC power supply (wall wart)
and power just the red LED'S and that runs 24/7 the frogs can't see the red light.
So they go into night mode and get active shortly after 5.

I feed mine by using the glass bowl method and it works great.

another thing you need to be really concerned with is heat and humidity
I used a hyrotherm HT-10 to control the heat and humidity
with a ceramic heat element and a infra red bulb.
for humidity I used a zoo med reptifogger and love it.
You just have to set it up like the picture on the box or you will have problems.

[Sticky]

Wow, clearly I did not do enough research! I have no clue what any if this means! I think I will take this with me to petsmart and see if they know what these things are, so they can show me what to buy.


how about this light? Exo Terra Compact Fluorescent Terrarium Canopy - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart


so far, here is my list of things to buy!


Terrarium- Zoo Med Naturalistic Terrarium- 18x18x24 - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
Branch- Fluker's Bend A Branch - Habitat Décor - Habitats & Decor - PetSmart
Cave- Conceptual Creations X-Large Hiding Cave - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
substrate- Zoo Med™ Eco Earth® Loose Coconut Fiber Substrate - Sand - Substrate & Bedding - PetSmart OR Reptile Carpet » Zoo Med Eco Reptile Terrarium Carpet | PetSmart
water dish- Zoo Med Repti Rock Water Dish - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
Food dish- All Living Things &#0153 Hermit Water Bowl - Sale - Fish - PetSmart
Hygrometer/Thermometer- Zoo Med Hermit Crab Dual Thermometer & Humidity Gauge - Humidity Control - Reptile - PetSmart


optional:


reptifogger-http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3355594&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS %2FNo (some pretty bad reviews, wonder why)




Anything missing?


i really really appreciate you taking the time to help me!

[kueluck]

The food dish won't work for crickets or roaches since they'll climb right out of that. You need a glass surface dish. You can find some great things cheap at Goodwill. I love the corning dishes because of the little handles on the side where they can sit. Also I would get the digital Hydro/Therm, the analog ones don't always give a correct reading. Mine never use any hiding-in-things like cork bark or cave. I have a fake shelf fungus with plants hanging over it for their rest area during the day. My female like to hang up in the corner by herself, she's lacking the social skills. I also have layered the bottom with hydro-balls, landscape fabric, soil mixture, eco earth (brick because it's less expensive) then sheet moss Sheet Moss (1 gallon) - Live Moss | Josh's Frogs (love this stuff). The reptile carpet would be to scratchy for the delicate belly skin.

I recommend getting a small 10 gallon tank for a hospital tank and starting your frog there. Use unbleached paper towel on the bottom to make sure the poop is normal and I highly suggest getting a fecal done about a week after to get your new frog. This way you can make sure he/she is healthy before putting he/she in the 18x18x24. This way you won't have to sterilize and disinfect the big set up. I learned this back when I got my 3 little ones in Feb of this year. Ended up having to tear down and throw out a lot of things, I started with the 18x18x24, but with 3 of them I quickly learned this was NOT big enough.

Good luck, I hope this might help, and welcome to the friendly frog place on earth!!

36x18x36 set up for 2 WTF
2 boys resting on the fake fungus covered with fake plant. This is close to the top in the center of back. You can see it better on the full pic.
Feeding dish back when they were babies.

[Mentat]

ExoTerra light systems are designed for 25W UVB CFLs. If you plan to use lamps to help heat enclosure these might come out short, even with incandescent lamps due to low watts. Would check Zoo Med's (60 watt max an independent switches). Another option would be to use dome lights; Fluker's has a small dome with in line dimmer. And just be aware that the Petsmart employee might know his stuff... but most don't .

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

For the whites I had I used a exo terra CFL hood with two 60W 65K white CFL

Note: The Bulbs I used produce the same amount of light of a 60W light while only consuming and generating the heat of a 25W.
So 186F is not that warm and that won't warm the enclosure very much at all like Carlos said.
What you see below is a infra red image of the exo-terra CFL fixture measuring the hottest area of the CFL bulb.


With that being said I also use three other heat generating devices to help keep the enclosure at a steady temp
Since I keep my home around 75F during the sumer.
Here is a image of the two repti therm deep dome fixtures that I have on top of the enclosure.
they are much warmer than the CFL hood.


One has a 75W ceramic heat element and the other has a 75W infra red lamp.
I also have a zoomed min heat mat on a 1/4 thick pane of glass under the enclosure
Idid that so the heat wouldn't be directly on the bottom glass of the enclosure
so it won't burn my babies belly when he burrows into the substrate.

[Sticky]

oh my gosh this is so confusing! I feel really bad, you guys are being so nice and helping me, and I don't understand a lot of it!
would somebody mind linking me to the lights I should be getting for an 18x18x24?
and what is a 25W UVB CFL? and a ceramic heat element? and a fecal? does tht involve a vet? none of the vets around here do reptiles or frogs I wonder if the reptile store guy would be able to do it?

is there a moderator I could message? I'm having a problem with my account!

[Lija]

ExoTerra light systems are designed for 25W UVB CFLs. If you plan to use lamps to help heat enclosure these might come out short, even with incandescent lamps due to low watts. Would check Zoo Med's (60 watt max an independent switches). Another option would be to use dome lights; Fluker's has a small dome with in line dimmer. And just be aware that the Petsmart employee might know his stuff... but most don't .

I'm yet to find an pet store employee that would know anything about frogs lol they do know how to sell stuff thought

[Lija]

1.how about this light? Exo Terra Compact Fluorescent Terrarium Canopy - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart

you'll use it for UVB, I would get UVB 5 ( exo terra or similar)

2. Terrarium- Zoo Med Naturalistic Terrarium- 18x18x24 - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart

my favorite terrariums by far! excellent choice, keep in mind for 3 frogs it will be a bit too small, but for 1-2 is perfect.

3. Branch- Fluker's Bend A Branch - Habitat Décor - Habitats & Decor - PetSmart
yes

4. Cave- Conceptual Creations X-Large Hiding Cave - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
you don't really need it

5. substrate- Zoo Med™ Eco Earth® Loose Coconut Fiber Substrate - Sand - Substrate & Bedding - PetSmart OR Reptile Carpet » Zoo Med Eco Reptile Terrarium Carpet | PetSmart

you need eco earth by zoomed or plantation soil by exo terra, loose or pressed bricks.

6. water dish- Zoo Med Repti Rock Water Dish - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart

yes, get a bit bigger one, they are gonna be big frogs lol

7. Food dish- All Living Things &#0153 Hermit Water Bowl - Sale - Fish - PetSmart

gail told you already about it, you don't need it, get a glass bowl instead

8. Hygrometer/Thermometer- Zoo Med Hermit Crab Dual Thermometer & Humidity Gauge - Humidity Control - Reptile - PetSmart

these are garbage, get digital ones

9. plastic/silk plants!!!! you need these. i would also get a wood branch.
10. ca/vit D3 and separate multivitamin powder
11. dome ( smaller size) and infrared lamp ( or ceramic heater).

12. reptifogger-http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3355594&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS %2FNo (some pretty bad reviews, wonder why)
because that thing is crappy, it will work only if you're lucky. you can use only distilled water for it. i returned 4, 5th is still working, i use modified home ultrasonic humidifiers for all other terrariums.
13. i would very strongly suggest to get zoomed hydroterm, it is controller that would maintain proper levels of humidity and temps day and night.


14. FROG! or better 2

to start in a small set up with papertowels would be a great idea, just make sure it has hiding spots, plants and i would cover all 4 sides of the enclosure to minimize stress. get fecal test done by a vet and if everything is ok place a frog in a permanent enclosure.

[Sticky]

thank you very much, lija!
I think I will only be getting one frog (will he be lonely?) that way I don't have to worry about one getting more food. how many crickets do I feed one frog?

the only thing I'm still confused on is lighting! if somebody wouldn't mind linking me to the perfect lights, then that would be fabulous

[Lija]

no problem

lights, if you read my writing you need 2 sets of it, one for heat ( dome with infrared) and one for UVB that you are gonna use as a day lamp.

1. exo terra canopy Exo Terra Compact Fluorescent Terrarium Canopy - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
and UVB5 Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 Compact Fluorescent Lamp - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
or Exo Terra Repti Glo 5.0 Compact Tropical Terrarium Lamp - Lighting - Substrate & Bedding - PetSmart

i saw that they sell zoomed canopies that by the description would work for both uvb and heat, not sure, never seen them, you need to be able to control heat separately. so unless i see it is possible i wouldn't buy it.
2. heat
if you are going to use hydrotherm then you can go with the least expensive dome, if not you need it to be with a dimmer switch, and i don;t see any at petsmart it should look like that ZOO MED™ Desert Lighting Combo - Sale - Reptile - PetSmart
but should have a dimmer switch , i think fluckers have these.

and as well infrared lamp 50W or 75W depending how cold is it in your house

[Mentat]

...would somebody mind linking me to the lights I should be getting for an 18x18x24?
To do this would need to know what room temperature is like at enclosures location (both Summer and Winter) and if you plan to keep live plants or not.

and what is a 25W UVB CFL? A lamp that is rated at 25 watts and produces ultraviolet light with a compact fluorescent light design. Exo Terra : Lighting.

and a ceramic heat element? A ceramic plate with electrical wiring embedded on it and a lamp bulb base used for heating only since it emits no light. Higher wattage units have a side effect of drying the air (heat does that). Zoo Med Ceramic Heat Element . Ceramic heat elements must point downwards and go into light domes such as these one: http://www.flukerfarms.com/repta-cla...bleswitch.aspx . I like the Fluker's because it comes with a built in dimmer.

and a fecal? does tht involve a vet? none of the vets around here do reptiles or frogs I wonder if the reptile store guy would be able to do it?
A fecal is a poop analysis done to determine presence of parasites in their digestive system (worms, protozoan, etc.). It does not matter if vet does frogs or not; his lab technician should be able to conduct analysis and provide results. They normally cost around $30 - $35. Store employees don't do them; you need a lab and knowledge of parasite presence (eggs, reproductive segments, etc.).

is there a moderator I could message? I'm having a problem with my account! Not a Mod; but forum was reacting slow earlier today.

Hope this helps and sorry for confusing you .

[Lija]

you better send a sample to Dr Frye ( his contact info in a sticky thread) vet or tech who has zero or very limited experience with frogs might miss something in a sample or find commensal protozoa and start treating.

[Mentat]

you better send a sample to Dr Frye ( his contact info in a sticky thread) vet or tech who has zero or very limited experience with frogs might miss something in a sample or find commensal protozoa and start treating.

Thanks for note Lija; thought parasite eggs, etc. looked all the same.

[Lija]

Carlos you're right parasite eggs look similar, i mean you can surely tell these are eggs, blood cells look different though and pathogenic vs commensal protozoa need experienced eye to distinguish. some vets see something wiggly and are very fast to prescribe meds for it, although not needed.

[kueluck]

Fecal exam, yes done by Vet office. You might want to check around and find one that does amphibians/repitle in case you do have situtation come up, but any Vet office can run a fecal exam. Give them a call just to make sure, that won't cost you anything.

Lighting I use a Zoo-med 40Watt red light for heating w/their light hood (takes up to two 60Watt bulb) and led lights for regular lighting. And if that gets to warm you can use a 25W red party light. The red light stays on 24/7. Also this is a pretty good site for Whites Tree Frog.http://whitestreefrog.net/

oh my gosh this is so confusing! I feel really bad, you guys are being so nice and helping me, and I don't understand a lot of it!
would somebody mind linking me to the lights I should be getting for an 18x18x24?
and what is a 25W UVB CFL? and a ceramic heat element? and a fecal? does tht involve a vet? none of the vets around here do reptiles or frogs I wonder if the reptile store guy would be able to do it?

is there a moderator I could message? I'm having a problem with my account!

[Sticky]

Great! Thank you all so much! You guys are very friendly and helpful

Actually, I just did something stupid, it has nothing to do with the site! I did notice it being slow this morning though. Whatever, don't worry I'll figure it out! Thanks!