New member needing some help!

[joebo27]

Hello,

first off I am new to this board. I hope some one here can help me. I have two african clawed frogs, have had them for about 10 years. just moved them into a new tank with a few fish, and of coarse, soem of the fish develop Ick. Now i know many of the medicines can be harmful to the frogs, so i have set up a temporary second tank for them while i medicate the fish. My question is after treatment is done, what do i have to do in order to get the water safe to have the frogs put back in. I am useing Tetra IckGuard.

any ideas/advice will be helpful, i have not started the medication yet hoping to maybe get some input first.

Thanks!

Joe

[mpmistr]

Hey there, welcome to the forums.

Going to need some more information on this situation here. For one what type of fish are we dealing with and how large a tank?

10 year old african clawed frogs are usually quite large, especially if females. There is a good chance these fish are facing two problems, ich and highly predatory frogs..!

You made a good decision by moving the frogs before using treatment, the ich medication is extremely toxic to them (in fact it's toxic to fish too.. just less so).

Again I have no idea what fish you have but when one of my tanks had ich (no frogs in it) I raised the temperature to the high 80s (Fahrenheit obviously) and added ich medication at 1/2 the recommended dosage and the ich went away after a week or so..

I can't recommend mixing fish and african clawed frogs though, it's not a good idea. If you must reintroduce the frogs, I would do at least two large water changes after the ich disappears 50% maybe? Over the span of a week or so and then place the frogs back in.

[Necromencer]

One the Ich has fully gone from the fish (no visible white spots), allow the tank to settle for anywhere from a week to a month (some people quarantine their tanks or store-bought fish for up to a month)

So, it's up to you. If you think the Ich is not longer there after two weeks, then introduce your frogs then. Just make sure that the water is safe (both in temperature and water chemistry) before you put them in.

Also, I know for certain that a lot of people are going to tell you that it is not best to keep ACF with fish. Some people say they've had no problems but others will tell you that you should never mix the two. Either the fish will be eaten, or the fish will harm the frogs. I'm not going to tell you what you should do, but you have to be aware that the worst could happen, although it may not ALWAYS happen.


hope this helped,

Necro

[joebo27]

I wish i would have discovered this site earlier! I only added the fish last week. Two blue channel cats, and two gold fish. they are in a 20 gallon long tank. and yes the frogs, one male and one female, are pretty large! I had read that they can be mixed with fish as long as they are not small.

I have not done anything yet except setting up the second tank for the frogs. Can ACF catch or be harmed by Ick? if not maybe ill move the fish to another tank and just let the frogs stay in the tank as is.


thanks again!

[joebo27]

My main concern is the health of the frogs, that is not to say i don't care about the fish, but i have had these frogs for a long time and would hate to cause them any harm over a stupid mistake I made.

[mpmistr]

One the Ich has fully gone from the fish (no visible white spots), allow the tank to settle for anywhere from a week to a month (some people quarantine their tanks or store-bought fish for up to a month)

So, it's up to you. If you think the Ich is not longer there after two weeks, then introduce your frogs then. Just make sure that the water is safe (both in temperature and water chemistry) before you put them in.

Also, I know for certain that a lot of people are going to tell you that it is not best to keep ACF with fish. Some people say they've had no problems but others will tell you that you should never mix the two. Either the fish will be eaten, or the fish will harm the frogs. I'm not going to tell you what you should do, but you have to be aware that the worst could happen, although it may not ALWAYS happen.


hope this helped,

Necro

I agree with you on the frogs and fish thing to a certain degree. I keep both frogs and fish, I've kept both together at one point however there are some seriously dangerous combinations.

I think to keep ACF with small armored/spined catfish like corydora/otto/pleco is just asking for trouble, usually a painful death for both species. Also I would never want anyone to keep ACF with aggressive fish like Cichlids and be harassed to death either.. some combinations can SORT OF KIND OF work out but the obviously cruel combinations are something I have to personally advocate we do not endorse on the forum.

All things considered if you're like me and value the frogs much more than the fish and do not mind if they get eaten then by all means house them together. Just do not get too attached to the fish! In my own personal experience they will hunt down fish very quickly, my three females plowed through many mollies back when I bred these fish for food. Needless to say I could not keep up and decided to stop breeding my own fish!

[mpmistr]

My main concern is the health of the frogs, that is not to say i don't care about the fish, but i have had these frogs for a long time and would hate to cause them any harm over a stupid mistake I made.

Understandable man, I like my fish but I love my frogs. I am the same way, if I lose a fish I am a little bummed but if I lost one of my frogs it would be like losing the beloved family dog..

Honestly though what fish are we talking about here? Not trying to judge but it may help if we knew what fish you had.

EDIT: My bad I missed your post about which fish!

Oh man! This is bad news bears.

Blue channel catfish are HUGE fish! I mean huge! Also aggressive! A 20 gallon is not near enough water for these guys and they grow fast. A goldfish is also a pretty messy fish and two is really pushing it in a 20 gallon with the goldfish alone. Now add the frogs to the mix and things are just out of control here, only the frogs themselves would be acceptable in a tank of this volume.

There is just not enough water to house all of these species!

I think the reason your fish are contracting Ich is because of the conditions they are kept, you just can't keep all these species together even with 100x the water volume these species simply cannot co-exist when they mature.

When I say a blue channel catfish is huge I mean too large for even the largest of tanks, I mean even 200 gallons is not enough to house a single specimen and you have TWO. These are monster fish dude!

I would ditch the fish and let the frogs live in the 20 gallon, the goldfish can be re-homed but I have no idea how you got blue channel catfish and I don't think they are even possible to keep in a home aquarium.. they belong in a river.

ACF are immune to Ich, it's a fish disease (actually is a parasite). I've had fish with Ich with ACF and they never had any problems, the fish were removed and I never treated the tank for Ich and it went away, Ich cannot survive without a host.

BLUE CHANNEL CATFISH

SCIENTIFIC NAME: Ictalurus furcatus
ADULT SIZE: 18 to 24 in (460 to 610 mm). The Alabama state angling record(111 lb) was caught from Wheeler Reservoir on July 5, 1996. The previous state angling record (104 lb) was caught in Wheeler Reservoir on the Tennessee River in 1994. During our river surveys, we infrequently collect and release blue catfish weighing 30 to 50 pounds; most specimens are 10 pounds or less.

[Gnag the nameless]

I'm just going to say that Michael is dead on, Blue Channel catfish are absolutely massive things! I'd never dream of keeping one!

Otherwise, I think Michael's got you well covered. If there's a handful of people on here who I consider to be experts on aquatic frogs, he's definitely one of them.

[deranged chipmunk]

i'm glad Michael said something. when i saw not one, but 2 blue cats, my jaw dropped!!LOL one of my local lfs has a red tailed cat, which grows slightly larger in a 500g indoor pond, and it's currently too big for that. and just a side note, that graphic was an alabama state record. i believe the world record for the blue cat was set in virginia last year. somewhere in the neighborhood of 129lbs!!! definitely not an aquarium fish.

[jmall]

Raising your temp will kill the ich no need for meds they tell you to raise the temp on the box also because that's the main factor in killing the ich http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php


Jordan Mallory

[joebo27]

Understandable man, I like my fish but I love my frogs. I am the same way, if I lose a fish I am a little bummed but if I lost one of my frogs it would be like losing the beloved family dog..

Honestly though what fish are we talking about here? Not trying to judge but it may help if we knew what fish you had.

EDIT: My bad I missed your post about which fish!

Oh man! This is bad news bears.

Blue channel catfish are HUGE fish! I mean huge! Also aggressive! A 20 gallon is not near enough water for these guys and they grow fast. A goldfish is also a pretty messy fish and two is really pushing it in a 20 gallon with the goldfish alone. Now add the frogs to the mix and things are just out of control here, only the frogs themselves would be acceptable in a tank of this volume.

There is just not enough water to house all of these species!

I think the reason your fish are contracting Ich is because of the conditions they are kept, you just can't keep all these species together even with 100x the water volume these species simply cannot co-exist when they mature.

When I say a blue channel catfish is huge I mean too large for even the largest of tanks, I mean even 200 gallons is not enough to house a single specimen and you have TWO. These are monster fish dude!

I would ditch the fish and let the frogs live in the 20 gallon, the goldfish can be re-homed but I have no idea how you got blue channel catfish and I don't think they are even possible to keep in a home aquarium.. they belong in a river.

ACF are immune to Ich, it's a fish disease (actually is a parasite). I've had fish with Ich with ACF and they never had any problems, the fish were removed and I never treated the tank for Ich and it went away, Ich cannot survive without a host.

BLUE CHANNEL CATFISH

SCIENTIFIC NAME: Ictalurus furcatus
ADULT SIZE: 18 to 24 in (460 to 610 mm). The Alabama state angling record(111 lb) was caught from Wheeler Reservoir on July 5, 1996. The previous state angling record (104 lb) was caught in Wheeler Reservoir on the Tennessee River in 1994. During our river surveys, we infrequently collect and release blue catfish weighing 30 to 50 pounds; most specimens are 10 pounds or less.

WOW, I wish the people at the pet store were as knowledgable as the people on this board, lol!


Thank you for all the input, I am going to get rid of the fish and just keep this tank for the frogs.

So just to be sure, If i get rid of the fish, the Ick wont be an issue for the frogs? no need to do anything?


Thanks again for all the help, you all are life savers!

[mpmistr]

WOW, I wish the people at the pet store were as knowledgable as the people on this board, lol!


Thank you for all the input, I am going to get rid of the fish and just keep this tank for the frogs.

So just to be sure, If i get rid of the fish, the Ick wont be an issue for the frogs? no need to do anything?


Thanks again for all the help, you all are life savers!

Good move. Ich won't affect the frogs. The LFS near you is ridiculous if they're selling those things, they're cute as 'fry' but those are as much an aquarium fish as a big mouth bass. In the future I would google any species you find from there first before spending money.

I can only speak from personal experience about african clawed frogs and Ich but I used to keep my frogs with a small school of zebra danio, they developed Ich and were moved to another tank and treated.

The frogs stayed in the same tank for months and months until I moved them into a 40B in October of last year and it was never treated for Ich and they're all big fat happy frogs and about as healthy as they can be.

No host = No Ich and ACF are not suitable hosts for this parasite. In time the Ich will become free floating and die.

As a side note the reason I say use heat to treat fish with Ich is it speeds up their life cycle, they attach to fix, drop off, multiply than effect the fish again. When you heat up the water their life cycle is shorter and you can zap them with the Ich med. Though I've seen Ich treated with heat and salt too. I try to use medication as a last resort. Most 'problems' in aquariums are due to lack of maintenance and proper care, usually when you nip that in the bud you fix your problems 99% of the time.

[joebo27]

Thanks again!

All great info and help!

I love these frog's and really want them to be healthy! when I saw the ick i got very worried!!

Good move. Ich won't affect the frogs. The LFS near you is ridiculous if they're selling those things, they're cute as 'fry' but those are as much an aquarium fish as a big mouth bass. In the future I would google any species you find from there first before spending money.

I can only speak from personal experience about african clawed frogs and Ich but I used to keep my frogs with a small school of zebra danio, they developed Ich and were moved to another tank and treated.

The frogs stayed in the same tank for months and months until I moved them into a 40B in October of last year and it was never treated for Ich and they're all big fat happy frogs and about as healthy as they can be.

No host = No Ich and ACF are not suitable hosts for this parasite. In time the Ich will become free floating and die.

As a side note the reason I say use heat to treat fish with Ich is it speeds up their life cycle, they attach to fix, drop off, multiply than effect the fish again. When you heat up the water their life cycle is shorter and you can zap them with the Ich med. Though I've seen Ich treated with heat and salt too. I try to use medication as a last resort. Most 'problems' in aquariums are due to lack of maintenance and proper care, usually when you nip that in the bud you fix your problems 99% of the time.

[mpmistr]

Thanks again!

All great info and help!

I love these frog's and really want them to be healthy! when I saw the ick i got very worried!!

If you want to be 110% super safe do this. Remove the fish, keep the frogs in quarantine for a bit longer. Use an aquarium heater, set it to maximum. Let the tank stand for one week at 90F or whatever your heater can do. Then do a 50% water change get the water down to the low 70s (72F is ideal) and then introduce the frogs back again.

Your frogs are 10 years old so I have no doubt you know how to care for them from here on out.

[joebo27]

do you think a total water change would be too extreme?

instead of the heating.

If you want to be 110% super safe do this. Remove the fish, keep the frogs in quarantine for a bit longer. Use an aquarium heater, set it to maximum. Let the tank stand for one week at 90F or whatever your heater can do. Then do a 50% water change get the water down to the low 70s (72F is ideal) and then introduce the frogs back again.

Your frogs are 10 years old so I have no doubt you know how to care for them from here on out.

[mpmistr]

do you think a total water change would be too extreme?

instead of the heating.

I don't think it would make much of a difference either way. As long as you preserve the beneficial bacteria in your filter I don't see a problem. In my opinion reintroducing the frogs probably won't hurt anything. Ich just does not affect them in my experience.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! If you did not add any medications to water can return your ACF as soon as remove the fish. A normal water change is fine; but changing 100% of the water could stress out the bio-filter and it will do nothing to help out frogs. Ick is a protozoan fish parasite that will stop reproducing and eventually die due to lack of host once fish are gone. Good luck !