Tomato frog help

[Darkhelmet]

Hi,

I have a pet tomato frog (D. guineti, his name is Franz), and lately I've been a little concerned about how he's doing. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with my questions.

To start, Franz lives in a 29 gallon tank with coco fiber substrate and a bunch of plants, which have taken over the tank and provide good cover for him. I keep him under a uvb during the day, and a red cfl at night so I can see him, although I'm not sure if it's a myth that frogs cannot see red light. Temperatures in the tank are high seventies to low eighties during the day, and the humidity is usually >=80%. I have a tupperware dish sunk into the coco fiber for his water dish. He's usually sitting out under the plants with a blank look on his face, croaking when the mister goes on, and changing spots every few days. I see him explore his tank at night, but I'm not sure it's a daily thing.

My first question/concern is that from what I can tell, he is not soaking in his water dish. Lately, all he's been doing is camping out under a fittonia plant on the opposite side of the tank as the water dish, and haven't seen him in the dish since I lasted reconfigured the tank (in fact, the only thing I have seen in the dish are the dumb crickets that have drowned). I checked it out and I believe he can get to the dish, but it's not a completely clear path with a few vines and plant leaves in the path. Should I be concerned about him being unable to reach his dish? Or if he needed water, would he have the instinct to explore his tank and eventually happen upon his dish? I mean, the tank is very humid and the substrate is very moist, so maybe he doesn't feel the need to soak? Maybe I'm worrying to much? I can post pics if needed.

Secondly, and this is kind of a general question, but are there any rules of thumb for judging how comfortable my frog is in his tank? I heard that if a tomato frog is uncomfortable, he will turn a brown color. This leaves me a little worried because he is slightly brown, but I'm not sure if that's just his normal coloration. Also, he does sit out during the day, and somewhere I heard that if you're at a pond and you find frogs sitting out in the day, that they are sick and/or stressed out. He sits out, and since tomato frogs are burrowers, I'm not sure if he's stressed out, or just feels safe.

Lastly, with tomato frogs, should I be worried about his lighting being too bright? I can't help but wonder if his fluorescent UVB light is too much. If maybe I should be worried about this, I can get specs on the light later.

Any thoughts?

[Mentat]

Hi,

I have a pet tomato frog (D. guineti, his name is Franz), and lately I've been a little concerned about how he's doing. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with my questions.

To start, Franz lives in a 29 gallon tank with coco fiber substrate and a bunch of plants, which have taken over the tank and provide good cover for him.
Cover is good, but frog still needs floor area to move around.

I keep him under a uvb during the day, and a red cfl at night so I can see him, although I'm not sure if it's a myth that frogs cannot see red light.
TFs do not need UVB; they are night creatures. If your plants can take it, room light is fine.

Temperatures in the tank are high seventies to low eighties during the day, and the humidity is usually >=80%.
TFs like cooler temps; 75-80F for adults is fine with 10 degree drops at night. You can have an area up to 85F with gradient to 80F during day but if whole enclosure is same temp would keep max at 80F.

I have a tupperware dish sunk into the coco fiber for his water dish. He's usually sitting out under the plants with a blank look on his face, croaking when the mister goes on, and changing spots every few days. I see him explore his tank at night, but I'm not sure it's a daily thing.
Maybe getting water needs from mister; which brings me to a question. What water are you using to mist? If dechlorinated tap (same as bath) then it's OK. But if you are misting with tap, distilled, R/O, or deionized water, then it's a problem.

My first question/concern is that from what I can tell, he is not soaking in his water dish. Lately, all he's been doing is camping out under a fittonia plant on the opposite side of the tank as the water dish, and haven't seen him in the dish since I lasted reconfigured the tank (in fact, the only thing I have seen in the dish are the dumb crickets that have drowned). I checked it out and I believe he can get to the dish, but it's not a completely clear path with a few vines and plant leaves in the path.
Should I be concerned about him being unable to reach his dish? Or if he needed water, would he have the instinct to explore his tank and eventually happen upon his dish? I mean, the tank is very humid and the substrate is very moist, so maybe he doesn't feel the need to soak? Maybe I'm worrying to much? I can post pics if needed.
See above answer, also, clear a path just in case.

Secondly, and this is kind of a general question, but are there any rules of thumb for judging how comfortable my frog is in his tank? I heard that if a tomato frog is uncomfortable, he will turn a brown color. This leaves me a little worried because he is slightly brown, but I'm not sure if that's just his normal coloration. Also, he does sit out during the day, and somewhere I heard that if you're at a pond and you find frogs sitting out in the day, that they are sick and/or stressed out. He sits out, and since tomato frogs are burrowers, I'm not sure if he's stressed out, or just feels safe.
From reading this post and your other threads appears Franz is stressed. Did you covered 3 sides of it's enclosure?

Lastly, with tomato frogs, should I be worried about his lighting being too bright? I can't help but wonder if his fluorescent UVB light is too much. If maybe I should be worried about this, I can get specs on the light later.
See comments about UVB above. Not need to worry, just tune-up enclosure to frog needs. Ground animals in tropical forest/jungles receive very little light during day and this one is nocturnal on top of that. You have a fluorescent UVB light designed for sun basking reptiles... think about how to improve that.
Any thoughts?

Made some comments inside the quote. To help your frog more, please answer questions from this list to best knowledge.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

Maybe we are missing something else and this will help to figure it out. Good luck !

[Darkhelmet]

Made some comments inside the quote. To help your frog more, please answer questions from this list to best knowledge.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

Maybe we are missing something else and this will help to figure it out. Good luck !

Alright, here we go:

1. Size of enclosure
I'm pretty sure it's 29 gallon, the dimensions are 24"x15"x21".

2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
Just Franz

3. Humidity
80% and up

4. Temperature
This varies, but it tends to fall in the 75 - 80 range, although I have seen it go into the low 80's.

5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
I use distilled water in a mistking to avoid mineral build-up and to make my nozzle last longer. In his water dish, I use regular tap water treated with a dechlorinator.

6. Materials used for substrate
All coco fiber, leca for drainage layer.

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
I have three pothos plants (one's really small), a dracaena, and a pink-veined fittonia. There is a piece of cork bark used to create a little hill in the back of the tank.

8. Main food source
Crickets, although I am starting a dubia roach colony and have been guilty a feeding a few off of it when I really shouldn't be yet.

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
I usually dust his food when I feed him, which is every other day or every other, other day if for some reason I missed feeding him. I just recently realized that what I have been dusting with is only calcium, and I thought it was also a multivitamin, so I'll have to get on that.

10. Lighting
I have a fluorescent UVB set up, I think it's a T12? I also use an exoterra tubular daylight bulb, I believe 40 or 60 watts. The exoterra is primarily for heat. Although the uvb is for plants, there isn't a ton of natural light in my room and I'd like to be able to better see him.

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
Like I said above, I use primarily the exoterra for heat. As a secondary source, I have a water heater buried in the leca. Heating was really a problem back home in Michigan, but I'm in South Carolina temporarily, so I've been looking to adjust how I heat accordingly.

12. When is the last time he/she ate
He scarfed down a dubia last night.

13. Have you found poop lately
I have, but I will admit that I am not very vigilant about it. I tend to clean it up when I see it, but this is a bad strategy because he camps out in under the plants and digs down slightly, so I'm not likely to see it.

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)


15. How old is the frog
The guy I bought him from said he was two years old at the time.

16. How long have you owned him/her
Since last July.

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
As far as I know, captive bred.

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
See 9. I don't really feed him treats. I tried to with some red worms, but they were too slick and he couldn't get ahold of them. Then apparently he got spooked by how they moved and wouldn't touch them.

19. How often the frog is handled
Very rarely, only when I am changing locations. This happens every few months because I bounce between home, work, and school in different states.

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
In my bedroom, which is low traffic.

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)
I changed the water in his dish when it gets low or dirty, and I pick up poo as I see it.

So I feel like there are some things I can improve on after answering those questions. I did end up putting a wallpaper on the tank on the rear and right-hand sides, but not the left side.

[Mentat]

Thanks for information! I don't use misters right now, so not sure if this is a problem or not. Understand that like others, you are using distilled water to extend mister life. Are mister heads pointing to walls or do they spray at frog area? If Franz is unknowingly positioning itself to get "showered;" then it's a possible problem. If that is issue, maybe you can reposition mister heads so they spray enclosure walls and not Franz?

The other one is that heater you have under leuca layer. Frogs bury to escape heat... but that heat source is coming from below. So in the world of Franz and other frogs... that isn't right and henceforth, it's stressful. What do you think ?

[Darkhelmet]

I think that if I were stuck in a box that was too hot, and I went in the shade only to find that it was hotter, I'd probably go crazy, so I could see how something similar could stress a sensitive frog out. That's a good idea, I've unplugged the heater for now until I remove it. Again, the reason I installed it was to increase temps, but if tomato frogs really are cool with cooler temperatures (intentional), I think it'll be okay. If temps are too low, I'll have to give heat pads a second look. I purchased a Zoomed UTH before and was disappointed, but have been happy with the flexwatt tape I'm using for my roaches, so I might try that.

From what I can tell, Franz doesn't get blasted per se with the nozzle (at least right now he's situated on the opposite side of the tank), but the nozzle does spray out into the tank and the mist circulates. Even with all the plants in the way, I think it still does "hit" him. I would have to say though that I prefer it spray out into the tank so it can keeps things damp and tropical like. It seems like him getting wet from the distilled water is bad, but only if he doesn't go in the water dish? I read around, and it has something to do with the salts in the water, apparently? I hope Franz knows that the he's not getting his salts from the mist, and therefore needs to stop being lazy and hop in the water dish.

I've turned off the uvb, and this might just be me, but he looks orange-er already. My plan at this point is the pot (i.e. take out of the tank) one of the pothos and shift the plants around a bit to give him some open space. Also, if I'm going to be cleaning the tank with some regularity, I might as well start mixing some sort of material into the coco fiber to enrich it, allowing me to plant more exotic plants. This last part, of course, is mainly for me, not Franz . Thanks for the advice!