I think my frog broke her leg...

[aegillesp]

I noticed today that Laputa's leg is just dangling and off to the side from her body...when I held her and she moved she could barely keep her leg up with her. I noticed her thigh(?) was kind of bending in the middle... I noticed her thigh was also purple... I think her MBD is getting MUCH worse but I don't know how to her calcium, I'm going to call the doctor first thing Monday. What should I do? Should I put her in a critter carrier so she can't climb very high? How can I get calcium into her? I tried to give her a cricket and she spat it out... Can I drop some liquid calcium onto her? This is becoming very frustrating and heart breaking all in one....

[flybyferns]

Hi,
Sorry she is still not doing so well.
Try to keep one thread going, as its difficult to go back and forth.
Yes you need to move her into a hospital enclosure.
(very dampened towels and her water dish) de-chlor water -only
Cover the entire enclosure with a towel .
*** maintain the proper temps and humidity for her

I still think she has to go to the vet asap

Let's re-group !!

Please answer:
This will really help us help you ( cut , paste and answer )
Plus some clarification ---- I'm trying hard to get all the details both threads.
1- 6 days ago she had what looked like hiccups ---during a pedi soak
Why were you doing a soak?
2- at that time you mentioned she did not eat for " a few days" ( "no poop " & "no missing food ")
So now -no food on her own for a week?
3-a few days a go -----you "used retiboost"
-have you used it again
- if so when
- has she lost more weight
- if so how much
5- if you have not weighted her --you need to ( use a little food scale)as this is the best way to dose the reptiboost
4- Could she have injured her leg----did she take a big leap? or dangle from branches in an awkward way with her foot still stuck to a leaf?
6- you mentioned you did a fecal - a month ago ?-she was clean ? -
7- at that time ( a month ago ?) the vet "said she showed signs of MBD"
-how did you proceed after that information to correct it
- please give details as to how often you were dusting and product ( specifically ) are you using.
8-a few days ago you mention she look bloated - does she still look bloated to you ?
9- have u used any liquid calcium product - if so what brand and when ?
10- did you get to the vet yesterday?

Some basic husbandry questions : ( a few repeats here, sorry )
I have underlined the questions that are most important

1-size of enclosure
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
3-humidity
4-temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6-materials used for substrate
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
8-main food source
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) what brands
10-lighting
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12-when is the last time he ate
13-have you found poop lately
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog
16-how long have you owned him
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
19- about how often the frog is handled
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
22- has or was the frog properly quarantined

[aegillesp]

She scared the **** out of me this morning, it looked like she fell and I thought she was dead...I didn't want to touch her, then I poked her and she twitched. I cried tears of happiness and tears of "she scared the Shyt out of me..."

I know this wasn't a question, but I've made some observations. Since she's been sick, she has been very, very dark brown, when I got her she was bright green and she jumped everywhere, she wasn't clumsy, she didn't slide down the sides of the tank when she climbed / jumped, now she is so clumsy she can't even really jump (she tries with her hurt leg) she can't even stay up on the glass, which is why I think she fell, and she sits squished up against her fake branch I have on two of her walls so she can't slide down.

Hi,
Let's re-group !!

Please answer:
This will really help us help you ( cut , paste and answer )
Plus some clarification ---- I'm trying hard to get all the details both threads.
1- 6 days ago she had what looked like hiccups ---during a pedi soak
Why were you doing a soak?

I did pedi soaks because I read somewhere on the forum that it will help them if they are very lethargic, that it would help them get some electrolytes and a little glucose into her for energy. I did one every other day, so she has had a total of 3

2- at that time you mentioned she did not eat for " a few days" ( "no poop " & "no missing food ")
So now -no food on her own for a week?
3-a few days a go -----you "used retiboost"
-have you used it again
- if so when
- has she lost more weight
- if so how much

I've only used it twice, I did it according to the the weight the doctor gave me when I went in for a check-up for my bearded dragon, she barely took any of it, less the second time, which I tried feeding her a cricket and she spat it back out.

5- if you have not weighted her --you need to ( use a little food scale)as this is the best way to dose the reptiboost

I only have the weight of her from the doc. I haven't gone out and gotten a scale yet...

4- Could she have injured her leg----did she take a big leap? or dangle from branches in an awkward way with her foot still stuck to a leaf?

She may have, I found her last night before I went to bed when I checked on her and putting more worms in her tank

6- you mentioned you did a fecal - a month ago ?-she was clean ? -

He gave her a clean bill of health with a fecal after 2 weeks, 1 week of baytril. She still had no change, when I took her in, he said she had nothing but pinworms in her poo.

7- at that time ( a month ago ?) the vet "said she showed signs of MBD"
-how did you proceed after that information to correct it
- please give details as to how often you were dusting and product ( specifically ) are you using.

He said I had my UV light set up wrong and that I was using the incorrect UV light. He gave me recommendations and I did everything he said, I tried dusting her crickets every other day, Before she got sick, she would sort of eat them, probably because she didn't know any better, and eventually she began spitting them out and refusing to eat them at all. The month I took her to the vet she started refusing the crickets, dusted or not.

8-a few days ago you mention she look bloated - does she still look bloated to you ?

When I bought her I thought she looked fat, she looked wider than any other frog I saw, even the one I had before her. When I look at pictures and when I see the other frogs at the petstore, they are thin and look healthy, her sides are puffy and round, and she is squishy (I poked at her a couple months ago, gently poked).

9- have u used any liquid calcium product - if so what brand and when ?

I have been using Fluker's Liquid Calcium for 2-3 months when she started refusing dusted crickets, I put it in her water bowl every time I changed it, and most times when I woke up in the morning around 5 or 6, she'd be sitting in it.

10- did you get to the vet yesterday?
By the time I saw her leg it was about 9:30, the vet was already closed, I am going to take her monday morning. When I talked to him about her on Wednesday, he really didn't know what was wrong with her. He was the only vet I could find (he was hard enough to find) that actually had good reviews, and he was recommended to me by someone on the Bearded Dragon forums.

Some basic husbandry questions : ( a few repeats here, sorry )
I have underlined the questions that are most important

1-size of enclosure
She is currently in a 12 x 12 x 18
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
Just her
3-humidity
Usually around 60-90%, I use the Zoo Med Fogger
4-temp
About 82*F
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
Only Drinking water from the store
6-materials used for substrate
Only Moss carpet or reptile carpet, I didn't want her to hurt herself by sitting on other substrates
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
All Artificial-The doc told me to Boil things I could, I've used bleach on new stuff I've gotten for her.
8-main food source
At First Crickets, Mealworms (which I've stopped giving her), Waxworms, I've introduced Phoenix worms (since they are so full of calcium you dont need to dust them) and She's had a hornworm
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) what brands
Repcal calcium dust, and Fluker's Liquid calcium in her water
10-lighting
Just her UV light
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
Right now I've left her Ceramic heating bulb (60W) on, and she's been sitting under it for a while
12-when is the last time she ate
Last week I believe she ate 2 crickets, I think she has a hard time chasing them.
13-have you found poop lately
Not for a week and a half, I've been waiting so I can take it to the vet
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog
I think around 4-5 months... I got her January 31st.
16-how long have you owned him
Since January 31st.
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
I'm not sure, I got her from PetSmart, the tag said nothing about captive bred.
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
Just mainly worms and crickets,
19- about how often the frog is handled
I never handled her until the last couple weeks, I know she doesn't like it and it stresses her out. She used to sit on top of her vine and wait to be fed, and she'd eat 1 mealworm and 7-10 small crickets everyday before she got sick
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
Medium I'd say, My bearded dragon is next to her, but I've had a towel up to cover that wall since I got him 2 months ago. I was going to put her in her 18 x 18 x 24 cage in the bedroom where there isn't a lot of traffic, I have to get a new stand since the one I wanted to use is a little unsteady.
21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
I cleaned poo about every day to every other day, changed her substrate to about once a month, now about every two weeks I change the carpet, I change her water every day to every other
22- has or was the frog properly quarantined
She was the only one I bought, I boiled and bleached everything when I took her to the vet the first time.

[flybyferns]

HI,

I glad to hear she will be going to the vet tomorrow--- she may need to be de-wormed?
Refrain from using anymore Baytril.

Use de-chlorinated water ONLY. ( water dish and paper towels on the bottom of the hospital tank)
She needs to eat . She has gone a long time without food
I would consider force feeding her today -- squish a wingless, legless cricket and mix it with reptiboost.
Or
Soak the prepared cricket in reptiboost and get it in her mouth ---most of the way. She will swallow and do the rest.
Use damped paper towels to hold her. Use a paper business card to get her mouth open.
Set the cricket on the top of the card---then slide it in her mouth. Another set of hands is helpful.
If the cricket dies while doing this --it does not matter.

Keep us posted
Lynn

[aegillesp]

She hasn't been on Baytril since the first week or so of March, is there something specific I can ask for when I go tomorrow? I know this may sound dumb, but Isn't drinking/purified water that I buy at the store, isn't that dechlorinated? I used to use distilled until I read on here not to use it, so I only use that for my fishies. I did try to feed her a cricket when I did the repiboost on Friday but she actually spat it out after we thought she ate it... I bought a small rubber spatula to use for her mouth since I was really scared to hurt her more with a paper card. can I give her a reptiboost bath? and if I can, what ratio do I use? I really do want to do right with her and I really appreciate the help you've given me!

I did put her in a hospital tank and I put it inside of her terrarium, since that was the best place to keep up the temps, when I left it was 81*F inside her hosp tank. I left a tiny bowl of water and an even tiner bowl of phoenix worms that have been wiggling like crazy. I'm hoping she'll eat those. Can I force feed her a phoenix worm? She'll get more calcium that way... and I have some pretty small ones I can give her.

[Bolisnide]

She hasn't been on Baytril since the first week or so of March, is there something specific I can ask for when I go tomorrow? I know this may sound dumb, but Isn't drinking/purified water that I buy at the store, isn't that dechlorinated? I used to use distilled until I read on here not to use it, so I only use that for my fishies. I did try to feed her a cricket when I did the repiboost on Friday but she actually spat it out after we thought she ate it... I bought a small rubber spatula to use for her mouth since I was really scared to hurt her more with a paper card. can I give her a reptiboost bath? and if I can, what ratio do I use? I really do want to do right with her and I really appreciate the help you've given me!

I did put her in a hospital tank and I put it inside of her terrarium, since that was the best place to keep up the temps, when I left it was 81*F inside her hosp tank. I left a tiny bowl of water and an even tiner bowl of phoenix worms that have been wiggling like crazy. I'm hoping she'll eat those. Can I force feed her a phoenix worm? She'll get more calcium that way... and I have some pretty small ones I can give her.

I'm sorry, i was typing when you left this post, so I missed osme of this information... sorry!
bottled water is not guaranteed to not have chlorine, chloramines in it. You still need to use the water conditioner. It's cheeper to use a water conditioner, de-chlorinatoer and tap water than it is to buy bottled water. And it's better for her.
It's good your not using distelled. But now that I know you were, that is another cause of MBD, it was draining all of her minerels in her body. By the way, the distilled water isn't good for fish either.
I would stay away from the phoenix worms for now, and use the reptiboost to dust small crickets only if you need to force feed. Or even if she's free feeding. Als use calcium every day for now and multi-vitamin once per week. I think she's severely malnourished and needs extra calcium. Phoenix worms are hard to digest, I hear. And if she's not well, that could cause a whole other slew of problems.

A repti-boost bath is a good idea.
Use pedialyte solution (1 part to 10 parts water) and add one of the little scoops full of repti-boost. Use treated water for the bath, and make sure it's fairly warm and not too deep. Soak her about 10 mins, then soak her in a warm clean treated water bath to rinse her. This could give her the nutrients she needs to begin eating on her own again.

[Bolisnide]

Hi, I'm trying to sort out this mystery for you as well....
I looked back on your previous posts in regards to Laputa, and all the ups and downs.
The things that stand out to me are the water and the calcium dusting (or lack of calcium dusting). You have never used treated water (as in treated with a water conditioner and de-chlorinator))? Is that correct?
If I read correctly, you didn't start dusting with calcium until a couple weeks ago? You were gut loading your crickets previously, but not dusting. And she's been lethargic lately, and now not eating that much since beginning to dust with cal. I do believe she could be suffering from MBD, what was the vets recomendation other than the UV light? Any calcium shots or drops, special brand of calcium for her feeders?
And you have never used multi-vit? Get a mult i vitamin for her, and dust once per week. Follow Lynn's advice on feeding above.
Why did your vet not prescribe something for the pin worms? Only baytril? I'm confused by that. I'm also confused about the sequence of events in which she was tested and did get a clean fecal, and then later a bad fecal? She should be on a de-wormer for sure.
I think it would be a super good idea, because of the pin worms, to simplify her enclosure.
Use several layers of plain paper towel as substrate (not the substrate carpet your using, as it harbors bacteria and pin worms!)
Clean with very hot water all of her enclosure, water dish, and only one plant - every day! so important.
Get her meds for the worms, ask your vet tomorrow (even if you don't have a fecal by tomorrow for him/her to test). Dust her feeders and feed as lynn described, if she won't eat on her own. Dust with panacur according to the vet instructions.
This is gonna be a long haul, I'm sorry to say. You're gonna have to be patient and consistent in her care.

[aegillesp]

Hopefully this will help!

Hi, I'm trying to sort out this mystery for you as well....
I looked back on your previous posts in regards to Laputa, and all the ups and downs.
The things that stand out to me are the water and the calcium dusting (or lack of calcium dusting). You have never used treated water (as in treated with a water conditioner and de-chlorinator))? Is that correct?
You are correct, I have never used a water conditioner, I don't use tap water. I live in Phoenix and the water here is pretty bad, it's hard water and it's full of calcium and other things and I didn't think it would do much good. I've always used the gallons of drinking water from the store.

If I read correctly, you didn't start dusting with calcium until a couple weeks ago? You were gut loading your crickets previously, but not dusting. And she's been lethargic lately, and now not eating that much since beginning to dust with cal. I do believe she could be suffering from MBD, what was the vets recomendation other than the UV light? Any calcium shots or drops, special brand of calcium for her feeders?

I have been dusting her crickets since I bought her in January. She never liked the taste of it and always spat them out, granted she ate them when I covered the wax worms in calcium powder. I've always used the water supplement for crickets that is with Calcium. My vet instructed me that if she will not take dusted crickets to gut load the crickets with calcium foods, like crush up tums and mix with the food, calcium quencher, etc. Which I have done. When she started to not eat the dusted crickets I began putting liquid calcium in her water bowl so she would get some calcium. I've pretty much put calcium everywhere I could. I did not drop the liquid calcium on the crickets though. As far as the UV light is concerned, I had it facing into the glass, not on top. Which I fixed and I got her a reptisun 5.0 bulb.

And you have never used multi-vit? Get a mult i vitamin for her, and dust once per week.

I have not used a multi-vitamin, I have them since I use it for my dragon, but I do have to get her to eat first.

Follow Lynn's advice on feeding above.
Why did your vet not prescribe something for the pin worms? Only baytril? I'm confused by that. I'm also confused about the sequence of events in which she was tested and did get a clean fecal, and then later a bad fecal? She should be on a de-wormer for sure.

her first fecal was filled with pin worms, the second, he said she was fine, but I didn't really see an improvement. When i thought she ate worms after the meds it turns out they just escaped and hit under the paper towels I had in there as a substrate. I'd like to get her back on the coconut fiber dirt like I had her on when i first got her. I got the carpet because I didn't want her to get hurt since she has been sick.

I think it would be a super good idea, because of the pin worms, to simplify her enclosure.
Use several layers of plain paper towel as substrate (not the substrate carpet your using, as it harbors bacteria and pin worms!)
Clean with very hot water all of her enclosure, water dish, and only one plant - every day! so important.
Get her meds for the worms, ask your vet tomorrow (even if you don't have a fecal by tomorrow for him/her to test). Dust her feeders and feed as lynn described, if she won't eat on her own. Dust with panacur according to the vet instructions.
This is gonna be a long haul, I'm sorry to say. You're gonna have to be patient and consistent in her care.

I am more than willing to do what it takes to get her better. I just need some help getting there. Which I have been getting, thanks to you and Lynn. Should I ask for the panacur when I go to the vet tomorrow? I'd like to know what to request and how much I should get as far as how long she should be on them when I go there, just in case.