What frogs/toads can I keep with fish?

[deranged chipmunk]

I'm really liking the Bumble Bee's... I think I could make a cool habitat for them in a ten gallon. I have a couple questions that the article didn't cover. What humidity do they like? Since they like a temp of 70-80 degrees, how should I heat the terrarium? My room is about 60 and under I think, I would have to check. The stupid AC unit likes to pump cold air into the basement.. LOL Would a reptile heating pad under the tank work best? Or something else?

i'm not sure about the bumblebees. a quick search on the net should show some sort of care sheet that is more extensive than the one you already read. as far as heating goes, it all depends on how you design the tank. i will say this though. a heating pad under a vivarium is a bad idea, since most vivs have a bit of water at the bottom of the tank, due to misting and drainage from watering live plants. as you can imagine, hot glass and cool water are like oil and water, except oil and water won't leave your floor wet.....lol

[Scottyhorse]

Wowzer, you have some AMAZING tanks there!

[Scottyhorse]

i'm not sure about the bumblebees. a quick search on the net should show some sort of care sheet that is more extensive than the one you already read. as far as heating goes, it all depends on how you design the tank. i will say this though. a heating pad under a vivarium is a bad idea, since most vivs have a bit of water at the bottom of the tank, due to misting and drainage from watering live plants. as you can imagine, hot glass and cool water are like oil and water, except oil and water won't leave your floor wet.....lol

lol.... so no heating pad then.. Haha. What I was thinking for the tank was making more of a sloping substrate, with a small pool of water at the front. I read 1/3 of the tank should be water, so maybe I will do a little more, and maybe a little trickling water fall? I don't know.. lol Thinking I will use coco coir and leaf litter. Underneath that dirt for the plants.

[Scottyhorse]

So, I just so happen to have a large size critter keeper available. Anything I can put in there? Or.... Will I end up with another terrarium?

[deranged chipmunk]

lol.... so no heating pad then.. Haha. What I was thinking for the tank was making more of a sloping substrate, with a small pool of water at the front. I read 1/3 of the tank should be water, so maybe I will do a little more, and maybe a little trickling water fall? I don't know.. lol Thinking I will use coco coir and leaf litter. Underneath that dirt for the plants.

that will work, but remember that you need a drainage layer at the very bottom, otherwise you will just have a bog condition, and they are fantastic for growing all kinds of nasty bacteria and fungii that wouldn't be good in such a confined space. you could always add a heating pad on the side or back of the tank for heat, but most people who have done that say that it isn't very effective. i can't speak with any experience on that. i prefer a false bottom and use an aquarium heater to heat the water which in turn heats the air. it's probably because im a fish guy...lol

as far as the critter keeper, some dart breeders keep their frogs in plastic shoe boxes for breeding, so i would guess a single or pair of thumbnails would possibly be ok in a large critter keeper. a baby pacman could be kept in on temporarily, but it will outgrow it extremely quickly. best bet would be to use the critter keeper to culture bugs for the frogs to eat and just add a terrarium for the frogs.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

you could always add a heating pad on the side or back of the tank for heat, but most people who have done that say that it isn't very effective.

To add to Bill's statement,
I have a 18X18X12 and use a medium zoomed heat mat on the side. In addition to a ceramic and infra red heat lamp.
controlled by a Zoomed HT-10 hygro-therm controller.

Being a field engineer for GE zenith I have access to a Thermal image camera and have noticed that the majority
of the heat produced by the pad when it is on a vertical surface loses almost 40% of its heat to the out side air.
Simply because of convection Heat wants to go up or at least heated fluids does. (yes air is a fluid.)

But it still makes a difference.

IF you do plan on using a heat pad make sure that when you stick it to the glass that the glass is first cleaned with a good glass cleaner then use rubbing alcohol to clean the glass also. This will get rid of any oils.
When you apply the heat matt make sure that there little to no air bubbles in between the mat and the glass.

[deranged chipmunk]

man, Louis is wicked smart, right?? hey Louis, what are your thoughts on heat tape vs. a heat pad? and do you think you could prevent some thermal loss by covering it with some form of insulation? maybe something like mylar?

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

man, Louis is wicked smart, right?? hey Louis, what are your thoughts on heat tape vs. a heat pad? and do you think you could prevent some thermal loss by covering it with some form of insulation? maybe something like mylar?

The only heat tape I have any experience with is the type used to keep pipe from freezing.
I wouldn't cover it unless you put some kind of temp sensor on it to keep it from getting too hot.

BTW I am not smart just old.

[deranged chipmunk]

i was actually thinking of the heat tape for reptile tanks, but when you mentioned over heating when covering it up, i realized the flaw in my plan.

and smart is smart, but age brings wisdom that's probably why my wife no longer calls me a smart a$$ and now calls me a wise a$$...LOL

[Scottyhorse]

lol... you guys are funny!! Hehe. So.. I don't have the money to buy a thermal image camera (though I have played with them, they are very cool ) what would be the best option to heat the tank? I am guessing the light bulb would do it during the day, but for night? I could move it upstairs where it's about 70, but I don't think I would be allowed.. lol.. There's already a bird and a 40B fish tank up there!!

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Depends on the size of the tank.
And I wouldn't move it around that will stress out the frog.

Ok lets say you are getting a Pacman frog.
and you have a 18X18X12 enclosure with a wire mesh top.
I would get two deep dome lamp holders and one with a 75W ceramic heat
emitter that will put out radiant heat and no light.
and a hygrotherm controller to turn on and off the heat source to keep
the temp at 80F during the day and 75F at night.

Packmans don't need UV or any special light since they spend most of their time
buried deep into the substrate with just the top of their head uncovered.
So a 65K 60W CLF bulb in the other lamp fixture with a timer would do the trick.

[Scottyhorse]

Hmm okay that makes total sense!! What about for a ten gallon with bumble bee toads?

[Mentat]

I'm really liking the Bumble Bee's... I think I could make a cool habitat for them in a ten gallon. I have a couple questions that the article didn't cover. What humidity do they like? Since they like a temp of 70-80 degrees, how should I heat the terrarium? My room is about 60 and under I think, I would have to check. The stupid AC unit likes to pump cold air into the basement.. LOL Would a reptile heating pad under the tank work best? Or something else?

They prefer ventilated enclosures with low humidity per this care sheet: Josh's Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Bumble Bee Toad Care and Breeding. Josh also sells them in singles or groups and he is a member here.

In regards to heating; should not use reptile under tank heaters because frogs bury themselves to cool down. You can use the mats on the side, but they are pretty inefficient. I like the ceramic heat lamps, used in conjunction with a thermostat (if room temperature is variable) or a rheostat (if temp is steady). Can also use incandescent red bulbs to provide heat 24 hours/day. Good luck !

[Scottyhorse]

They prefer ventilated enclosures with low humidity per this care sheet: Josh's Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Bumble Bee Toad Care and Breeding. Josh also sells them in singles or groups and he is a member here.

In regards to heating; should not use reptile under tank heaters because frogs bury themselves to cool down. You can use the mats on the side, but they are pretty inefficient. I like the ceramic heat lamps, used in conjunction with a thermostat (if room temperature is variable) or a rheostat (if temp is steady). Can also use incandescent red bulbs to provide heat 24 hours/day. Good luck !

Okay, so I have decided I will not be breeding bettas this year since I am so busy. SO. That means I will have extra tank space!! Yipee! I'm thinking I will set two ten gal tanks up. Not sure what I want to keep in the ten gallon. Any suggestions? I am open to most anything. Don't mind color, don't mind if it is a single frog or a group, etc. I kinda think I would like a tree frog(s), but like I said, open to anything!!

[Scottyhorse]

So I think in the second tank I will be keeping reed frogs I have read a little about them, but what's a good vivarium set up for them? How much water? Edit- Just heard back from Josh's frogs (where I will be getting quite a bit of stuff from, they said 2/3 water, but will utilize as much as you give them. Thinking of doing an island type thing? How would I make it stay in shape? Oh I got an idea. Get a piece of egg crate, putting the felt over it, the whatever substrate I will be using (what would be best?) then siliconing it to the back corner of the viv. Since this will be mostly water, I will use mostly aquatic plants so I can hide any funky looking edges.

Also, I think I will be running a fogger on at least the reed frog tank for humidity, I think on the BBWT viv I will just mist it.
For lighting I will be running a 26 watt CFL, with the UV is it? Heat lamp thingy.

Sorry if I am hard to follow When I start these builds I will make their own threads so I am not confusing you! lol

[Scottyhorse]

Another question. How do I clean coco fiber substrate? I think that's what I will use in the BBWT viv, with moss. In the reed frog viv I am just going with gravel.

[Scottyhorse]

Okay ANOTHER question heehee. I was wondering if in the BBWT viv I could just dump a spring tail culture in there for the frogs to feed off of? Then could I just feed them little dusted crickets and wingless fruit flies?

And what about rice flour beetles for the reed frogs?

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

you can spot clean like cat litter but you have to total replace at least every month or sooner, Your nose will
tell you when.
I recommend that you put a layer of fine non metallic screen to keep the eco earth or coco fiber from falling into the drainage
gravel or expanded clay balls.

When I do a total replace I use a wet dry vac to vacuum up the old.
I dig up my packman frog before and let it soak while I do the clean up.

as far as the feeders one of the other more learned members answer that one.
but as far as beetles go I would be careful some are carnivorous and might bite your baby .

[deranged chipmunk]

wow, that's a lot of questions. i'll try to answer them, but i'll probably miss a few....lol

you can do an island tank very easily and cheaply. i actually designed one to go in a 40b, but never got around to building it completely. go to the dollar store and get a small plastic wastepaper basket. trim it to about an inch above your planned water level, fill it with a drainage layer (don't forget a drainage tube) and the substrate of your choice. it will actually be small enough that if you so choose, you can use gravel as a drainage layer. place that in a spot in the tank that you want it, and you have an instant island. trim it with some moss and plant some aquatics in front of it and no one will be the wiser. of course, you can still do egg crate easily enough. the way i described is just a very economical way of doing it, and it will keep the substrate dry.

a cfl rated at 6500k will provide sufficient lighting to any live plants you may keep in the viv, but will provide only the slightest amount of heat. the only heat will come from the attached ballast, not from the light itself, so you may want to plan for a supplemental heat source. as far as uvb lighting goes, it's not really necessary, but if you feel more comfortable having it, then by all means go for it. none of my tanks have uv lighting. they all run 6500k florescent lighting.

louis already covered the cleaning of coco fiber, but keep in mind, that phat phrogs require monthly substrate changes, but many other frogs do not, especially if you are keeping a live vivarium. with the addition of microfauna as a cleaning crew, you can just spot clean and do annual substrate changes. but as Louis said, the nose knows

keeping a springtail culture in the tank as a primary food source most likely will not work. the frogs will diminish your culture very quickly. your best bet is to seed the tank with microfauna first, then wait about a month for them to populate the tank before adding the frogs. give them some time to establish themselves before adding the murderers....lol feed fruit flies as a primary food source, and they will snack on the springtails in between meals. the springtails just won't reproduce fast enough to keep up with the frog's appetites. the frogs will eat until they explode, if given the chance.....lol as far as rice flour beetles, i would only feed the larvae.

hope i got most of your questions answered

[Scottyhorse]

you can spot clean like cat litter but you have to total replace at least every month or sooner, Your nose will
tell you when.
I recommend that you put a layer of fine non metallic screen to keep the eco earth or coco fiber from falling into the drainage
gravel or expanded clay balls.

When I do a total replace I use a wet dry vac to vacuum up the old.
I dig up my packman frog before and let it soak while I do the clean up.

as far as the feeders one of the other more learned members answer that one.
but as far as beetles go I would be careful some are carnivorous and might bite your baby .

So I could put a drainage layer down instead of a false bottom? Yes!! All of this is a lot to take in, and not needing to make a false bottom will be nice! So when I replace the first layer, how do I get all the water out? Or do I leave it?