Clawed Frog Bloated

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Best is a 10% solution of clorox and water. and rinse out with a mixture of over dosed de-chlorinator and tap water.
3X the normal dose for 1 gallon,

and then rinse with plain de Chlorinated water

let sit over night dry and see if you still smell any clorox
if there is any hard water stains a paper towel damped with white vinegar will do the trick
and that will kill just about any bug.

[reptileszz]

My reply:

First of all, I do not appreciate any of you speaking to me in the way you are speaking to me. I myself am an animal lover and would never do anything intentionally to hurt an animal. I have done research online and there are many varying opininons on frogs, how they should be kept and their reactions to salt. I wanted to seek some help from some others that might have different experiences. Your advice, although I see clearly that I have been doing something wrong, is rude and obnoxious. To be honest,your comments will only hurt other frogs in the future because people will be nervous to seek help and advice from people like you who may have good insight but are completely rude about giving an answer. It would have been enough for you to give me the feedback without the attitude.

I will take your comments into consideration obviously and make the environment as comfortable as I can for him but I do not appreciate the treatment I have been getting on this site and will take action to write to the heads of the site to advise on how rude you are.

Thank you

This is very sad. You are not being treated poorly. You are being given important advice. You are keeping your frog in conditions that are obviously harmful. I suggest you step back, read the advice, follow it and you will have a happy healthy frog. If not I dont think you will have this frog anymore

Carole

Oops, should have read farther along. I am glad you are taking the advice. Your frog will be much healthier for it

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Oops, should have read farther along. I am glad you are taking the advice. Your frog will be much healthier for it

Yep a clear case of open mouth insert foot. LOL

[Jenste]

Let's stop worrying about talking about other members and let's focus on helping this frog.

Welcome Rob.

I highly recommend filling that 5 gallon up, not half way. I had frogs in 22" of water in my tanks and they thrived. At 3 years old, your frog should be full grown and depending on gender it should be over 3" of body length (nose to bottom, not including stretched out hind legs) if a male and over 5" if female.

The small tank, poor diet and inadequate water volume have stunted his growth. The 5 gallon will be a much healthier environment for him. While switching, I would not move over the gravel as he is looking rather rolly polly as it is and has problem ingested some which can be quite damaging to their insides. Opt for a bare bottom tank or a thin layer of sand in the new tank.

If you are going to keep not filtering, please do a 50% water change every three days. This will help him immensely - only treat the water with a fresh water conditioner like API, do not treat the tank with salt, pH buffers, ammonia remover etc. The fresher the water is, the more fresh water creatures appreciate it!

You already greatly improved his diet so well done there. Instead of freezedried brineshrimp try switching to the frozen brine shrimp cubes. Just cut off a small amount from the block (keep the rest of the block frozen), thaw his portion in tank water then feed. It is easiest to feed using a little plate on the bottom of the tank and squirting the sinking food onto it (the brine and depends on which type of pellet you use - some float, some sink). Feeding in the same place every time teaches the frog where to go when it smells food (their vision is awful!) and it keeps the tank cleaner by not having food scattered all over the place to be missed so it rots. Rotting food fouls the water.

[Necromencer]

Hey Rob,

I know you're worried about the depth of the water, but it shouldn't really be an issue. As long as the tank isn't extremely tall (12''+) then the frog shouldn't have much of a problem. It's always best to go for a longer tank than a higher tank.
Here is a picture of my current tank I'm using now (the big one). As you can see, it's quite deep. I have my water filled almost to the top and I've been observing my frogs for fatigue and difficulty getting air, and they have no problems what so ever. My frogs are roughly the same size as your one now, you can see one of my frogs in my profile picture. I do recommend that you get either a basking platform or floating plants. This is more so for my species of frog (Silurana Tropicalis [xenopus]), but I'm sure your frog would appreciate it too. With either a basking platform or floating plants, your frog can attach itself to it and rest there, instead of having to go up and down for water all the time.

Hope this helps

[Mentat]

HI there. 1/2 of 5 gal filled with fresh clean water. Will pick up dechlorinator tomorrow. Im concerned to use water from other tank since last frog in that tank died and just lost a fish recently. Other fish are healthy but I wont know if there is any bad bacteria in there. The 5 gal has a filter but it was used to house a sick fish previously and not sure how to clean it well. Stressed.. lol. Will figure it out though if it is best for Frogee for sure.

Hi Rob! Have not read all new posts yet but will answer this one. One quick option to 10% soak is to use a clean sponge or paper towel (in ventilated area, wear old clothes, rubber gloves and eye protection) soak it in plain house bleach (Clorox) and go over all surfaces of tank, filter, glass tops, etc. Let it be for ten minutes and rinse well in tap water. Then prepare a concentrated dechlorinator solution (about 4x strong) and go over everything with it; done.

For plastic decor make plain bleach solution at 1 part bleach to 10 parts water and soak all plastic decor there for 24 hours and then rinse in tap water.

Natural gravel (not painted or clear coated) can be baked in oven. Make tray with aluminum foil and spread it on it, then cook for 1 hour at 250F, turn oven off and let it remain in overnight... done. For colored or clear coated gravel would just throw away and replace.

For filter media; dispose of all filter pads and get new ones. Plastic bio-balls can be handled as the plastic decor and any sintered glass media/lava rock/etc. can be baked with gravel (do not soak anything porous like gravel or media in bleach). Good luck !

[Mentat]

...
- OK will do, salt is aquarium salt and amount was applicable to fish aquarium maintenence amounts. Do you think this is ok? Below you mention that you only use salt to medicate but above it seems you are advising to replace salt.

- Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.
- How do I rinse out gravel if no tap water? I usually swish the water through the gravel to get it clean.

...Are you advising dechlorinator and let water sit as well?

- It seems most of the comments in that care sheet are for a dwarf frog and I actually think my frog is a clawed frog. Is that correct? It also seems that my tank size is ok for my frog then since they recommend 1gal per dwarf frog and my frog is the same size as a dwarf frog.

Agree with Jen that appears you have a stunted ACF. I only use salt to medicate frogs, did advice you to replace it as you water change for that issue. If you have always used salt and frog still got sick; then think it will not help in this case. Understand your decision not to medicate, that is your choice. Recommend then follow Jen's advice and see how that goes.

Reason I stated not to wash gravel in tap water is because you do not use a filter and the small amount of good bacteria live in that gravel. By washing it on tap you kill them and the ammonia/nitrite problem becomes permanent. So swishing in removed tank water is similar to "vacuuming" gravel during water change in bigger tank.

After using dechlorinator in proper dose can use water immediately if same temperature.

Understand frog is not a Dwarf Clawed Frog; reason referenced that care sheet was to point out additional feeding items .

[rob2000]

Hi All,
Thank you for your feedback.
I have put aside about 3/4 of the 5gal tank of water and have an additional gallon set aside seperately that i can add as well. It has been sitting since late last night. I also bought a dechlorinator called Kordon NovAqua Plus Water Conditioner to remove the cloramines. I did not clean the tank with clorox which is my only concern. The fish that was housed in that tank died over a month ago and the tank was dry. Do we think that I should start over with clorox and wait for temp to return to room temperature again or would bacteria be dead already. It was only used for 2 days and no algae grew on it etc.

I did get some white and black sand for that tank instead of the "bite sized" gravel.
I already had the ammonia kit so I bought the Nitrate kit (nitrite kit was not there) and I am going to test the water tonight now that it has been 2 days and see what is happening in there before dumping that water.
I have to get some new filter media before using the filter but the increased water will hopefully help. Just worried he will not like the current since he isnt used to that.
Will keep you posted when I do the tests. He is still active and looking for food today.

[rob2000]

HI all,
I didnt have the test kit for nitrites but I did test for ammonia, nitrates and pH.
Nitrates were 0
Ammonia was just about .25ppm (slightly green)
pH was acidic.

Seems that you were all correct and the water quality is horrible. I had no idea that such a small frog could make the water change so fast and thought that the weekly change was ok. I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time.

Thoughts?

[mpmistr]

HI all,
I didnt have the test kit for nitrites but I did test for ammonia, nitrates and pH.
Nitrates were 0
Ammonia was just about .25ppm (slightly green)
pH was acidic.

Seems that you were all correct and the water quality is horrible. I had no idea that such a small frog could make the water change so fast and thought that the weekly change was ok. I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time.

Thoughts?

Never use soap on an aquarium the residue lingers for a very long time and is toxic to frogs and fish. The best way to clean out an aquarium for use again is bleach, rinse it out a ton (and I mean a lot), then use a dechlorinater.

Have you considered picking up a cheapo 10 gallon tank at Walmart of PetCo? I think for about 10 bucks that would give your frog enough space.

[rob2000]

So Frogee is in his new home. I need to figure out the best filter for the 5 gal (that was the best tank I had to upgrade to tonight so that he got out of that crappy water) such as underwater or cascading and plants. I will consider the 10gal. He seems to be ok so far. He went into his little cave rock for about 3 min and now is out in the front looking for food. I did not add salt back into the tank. Let me know if you guys feel that I should because of the bloating or if I should leave it out.
Ill continue to feed froggee bites for now and will leave out the freeze dried blood worms until bloating subsides a bit (hopefully).
Will keep you posted tomorow.

[SwimminSteve]

Hi Rob,

I'm glad to see that you are taking steps in the right direction for your frog. I would really advise buying the 10gal tank. I remember buying one for around $15 at walmart and I've seen them on craigslist for less than that even. The reason that we are pushing for a 10gal is that you will have a hard time keeping adequate water conditions in a smaller tank. The cycling process and maintenance will be easier in a 10gal than a 5.5gal. Do you have a lid on your tank? That is a must, because these frogs are surprisingly good at escaping.

As for a filter: Since you are still considering upgrading to a 10gal, I would advise that you get a filter large enough for a 10, but small enough for a 5.5. My personal favorite filter for a small tank is the Whisper i series by Tetra. Even a whisper 10i (about $10 on amazon) would be hugely beneficial to your frog's health. Once your filter is up and running you would only need to do 25% water changes each week (it's so easy).

I prefer bare-bottom tanks, because the upkeep is much simpler. I may have missed it if you mentioned what kind of frog pellets you were feeding, but I prefer HBH frog and tadpole bites and Reptomin turtle sticks. These are a healthy staple diet for your frog. Frozen/thawed brine shrimp and earthworms would be great occasional treats. I would definitely stay away from anything with bloodworms, since these are a potential contributor to bloat.

Once your frog's environment has improved, we would be happy to address treating the bloat. I'm optimistic that some of it will subside when his water conditions improve, but you shouldn't expect to see a 100% recovery. He will probably always have some subcutaneous fluid trapped from this, but I'm hoping that it will decrease to the point where it causes him no discomfort.

Rob, I hope you can understand the reactions of the folks on the forum. You came here, a place where self-admitted frog nerds come together, for help. Of course everyone is quite passionate about frog care and wants to see the best possible treatment of them. As an animal-lover, I'm sure you can see why people put the animal's needs before the feelings of its owner. I can promise you that no one intended to insult you or question your dedication to your pet, they just hoped that strong words would jolt you into action .

[rob2000]

HI Swimmin Steve,
Thanks for your advice. I think I have a whisper filter but I had it on the tank with the sick fish. Would I use bleach on this component too without the media and just get new media? Just want to make sure I dont add more bad bacteria etc to the tank by accident.

I am feeding Zoo Med Aquatic Frog and Tadpole Food (micro pellets). I am just concerned that Frogee can't find it as easily since the tank is bigger and he has to go further to the top. There is a filter hole which I covered (until I get the filter straightened out tomorrow) with paper and tape so I think it will be ok.

I can say that so far so good... Frogee doesnt seem to mind the new tank and once I get him some more plants or little enclosures etc I think he will be even happier. I can always move that stuff to the 10gal. I will continue to monitor the water with the testers until then to make sure it isnt an issue in the meantime.
I put a towel over the tank for now so that he has some shade instead of light and he can hide a bit more since there isnt too much in the tank right now. I did take the advise of others in the forum and I got white sand for the bottom. Will definitely leave the bloodworms out of the diet.
Hopefully he will feel a little better soon. I definitely understand the concern of others. To be honest I think the 3rd response or so upset me the most and I felt attacked and belittled. I am over it now and am glad that I am taking steps now to make Frogee feel better. Hopefully my efforts work. I will keep you posted.

[mpmistr]

HI Swimmin Steve,
Thanks for your advice. I think I have a whisper filter but I had it on the tank with the sick fish. Would I use bleach on this component too without the media and just get new media? Just want to make sure I dont add more bad bacteria etc to the tank by accident.

How did the fish die? New media would start your aquariums cycling process over again. Did the fish die from some kind of bacterial issue? Filters contain beneficial bacteria that breaks down ammonia into nitrite then nitrate which is beneficial to your aquarium (cycling is basically the nitrogen cycle of NH3 > NO2 > NO3).

I am feeding Zoo Med Aquatic Frog and Tadpole Food (micro pellets). I am just concerned that Frogee can't find it as easily since the tank is bigger and he has to go further to the top. There is a filter hole which I covered (until I get the filter straightened out tomorrow) with paper and tape so I think it will be ok.

The Zoo Med food is perfectly fine. Whatever food is not found can be removed with a turkey baster (one never washed with soap!) or a gravel vac. I would remove food daily if any is left over. Have you considered live food such as nightcrawlers? I feed these often to my frogs, probably more so than pellets and they really enjoy it. You can buy them at a bait store or walmart so long as they are not dyed or scented or have any weird 'enhancements' to attract fish.

I have used tape to cover gaps on my tanks before and it is necessary as these guys can and will leave the tank given half a chance. Do not worry about their ability to swim/surface for air. I kept small froglets (tiny!) in a 20G high tank and they were able to dart upward for air in half a second. They are very capable swimmers don't underestimate them, lol.

I can say that so far so good... Frogee doesnt seem to mind the new tank and once I get him some more plants or little enclosures etc I think he will be even happier. I can always move that stuff to the 10gal. I will continue to monitor the water with the testers until then to make sure it isnt an issue in the meantime.

10 gallon would be ideal.

I put a towel over the tank for now so that he has some shade instead of light and he can hide a bit more since there isnt too much in the tank right now. I did take the advise of others in the forum and I got white sand for the bottom. Will definitely leave the bloodworms out of the diet.
Hopefully he will feel a little better soon. I definitely understand the concern of others. To be honest I think the 3rd response or so upset me the most and I felt attacked and belittled. I am over it now and am glad that I am taking steps now to make Frogee feel better. Hopefully my efforts work. I will keep you posted.

White sand is good, I like the CaribSea Moonlight sand personally it's very fine sand and if they digest any of it, it goes right through them. I did not mean to belittle you but the frog sounded in trouble and I was trying to put some urgency in my tone.

I think you can get this frog on the road to recovery and I hope he gets better soon!

[rob2000]

HI Michael,
Thanks for your response.
The fish was taken out of the primary tank and put into a secondary tank (this 5gal) to rest and sit by himself. To be honest, I am not sure what killed him. I think it was a type of fungus though based on the white tufty material he ended up getting on him. Two fish in that tank were picking on eachother and although I tried to seperate them in the tank, they both ended up dying. The fish was only in that tank for a few days. I think I would have to get at least new filter media but I am not sure how to clean the rest of the filter. I will take a look online. Have you ever had luck with that bacteria set up that they sell to add beneficial bacteria to water?
He still seems to be doing well and doesnt mind the tank. I just have to get a filter up and running and get that tank in good shape.

Its ok, I am very passionate about animals myself which is why I was very upset. I have actually stopped eating beef and pork and hope to cut out some others as well because I care about animals so much. My Aunt was an animal rights person and almost got arrested several times for standing up for dogs in cages at pet stores.
I really do try to keep all animals (water or land) healthy and happy but apparently I am a little better at land animals and need some more guidance on water creatures.. lol.

We will see how I do. Hopefully he will feel better soon.

[Necromencer]

HI Michael,
Thanks for your response.
The fish was taken out of the primary tank and put into a secondary tank (this 5gal) to rest and sit by himself. To be honest, I am not sure what killed him. I think it was a type of fungus though based on the white tufty material he ended up getting on him. Two fish in that tank were picking on eachother and although I tried to seperate them in the tank, they both ended up dying. The fish was only in that tank for a few days. I think I would have to get at least new filter media but I am not sure how to clean the rest of the filter. I will take a look online. Have you ever had luck with that bacteria set up that they sell to add beneficial bacteria to water?
He still seems to be doing well and doesnt mind the tank. I just have to get a filter up and running and get that tank in good shape.

Its ok, I am very passionate about animals myself which is why I was very upset. I have actually stopped eating beef and pork and hope to cut out some others as well because I care about animals so much. My Aunt was an animal rights person and almost got arrested several times for standing up for dogs in cages at pet stores.
I really do try to keep all animals (water or land) healthy and happy but apparently I am a little better at land animals and need some more guidance on water creatures.. lol.

We will see how I do. Hopefully he will feel better soon.

Are you turning into a vegetarian purely out of principle or because you think that somehow you will stop people eating meat?

[rob2000]

I don't want to be the reason that a pig or cow is killed. I actually have a potbelly pig too so it really doesnt make sense. Ultimately I am going to try to cut out Chickens and Turkeys as well but I have to take baby steps. I will not recommend that others follow me but they can if they would like. I also watched a movie called "forks over knives". If you haven't seen it I would recommend it. It was very interesting and was one of the reasons I am trying to cut animals out of my diet.
Needless to say I wont be eating frogs legs.. lol

[Mentat]

...I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time. Thoughts?

Wow Rob... I'm both surprised and confused about this comment. Did you used soap because someone told you or is that an established practice when you clean your fish and frog tanks? The reason I ask is because soap is a great human skin antibacterial; but a very toxic substance in aquatic environments. Nothing (brushes, pails, etc.) that comes in contact with soap should be shared when cleaning fish/frog tanks and the tank itself should never be washed with soap. If you have used soap in the past, that probably explains your fish deaths and frog ailments .

[rob2000]

No, I havent had to wash any of my tanks (for disinfecting purposes) and actually it is not a regular occasion that I loose fish believe it or not. I have not used any soap in frogees environment in the past so that is definitely not the cause of any of his issues.

[rob2000]

Well I was on a good track and ran to the store to get a new filter. However, when I put the filter on the tank, of course some sand goes into it and clogs it. Looks like I have to get another filter. Any recommends?