Clawed Frog Bloated

[Mentat]

...He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.
Could you please tell me if the eyes are on top of head or on sides. Also, are front hands webbed or not?

You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?
Go ahead and do test tomorrow prior to water change. Until we solve this, might want to do 50% water change daily (with dechlorinator - see below). Remember to replace salt removed by volume.

1. Size of tank
The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.
Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.

The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.
Do get dechlorinator like Seachem Prime and start using now. Chloramines are very stable and will not disperse by aerating or boiling water. I don't use salt with frogs unless medicating at 1 teaspoon per 1.25 gal. Note that it should be aquarium salt; not table salt for humans.

I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.
Make sure gravel can't be ingested by frog. If it can; get a larger substrate because is can become an impaction hazard.

His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.
Please take a look at this care sheet for more feeding ideas appropriate to your frog size: http://www.frogforum.net/care-sheet-...warf-frog.html.

No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.
If frog is what I think; water should not drop below 70F and better if higher. Will worry about this once dealt with bacteria.

I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.
OK, change 50% per previous comments.

2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
Can't open attachments.

Once per day and no additional treats.
See previous comments.

Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.
Let's try 50% daily per previous comments.

OK, my thoughts are that the salt is slow acting and will take some time to work. Issue with medicating is that the size of tank makes it challenging. Can you get a bottle of Melafix at your local pet or fish shop. It's a natural anti-bacterial that I read is safe for frogs (when dosed correctly). Only thing is, can't find if there are any side effects on a bloated frog. Keeps those pics of frog handy to compare with frog in a couple day's to check for improvement. Good luck !

[rob2000]

Sorry I dont know how to do that quote response thing. I hope this will suffice.

- ...He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.
- Could you please tell me if the eyes are on top of head or on sides. Also, are front hands webbed or not?
- Eyes are mostly on top of head I would say but off to sides slightly and front hands are not webbed.



- You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?
- Go ahead and do test tomorrow prior to water change. Until we solve this, might want to do 50% water change daily (with dechlorinator - see below). Remember to replace salt removed by volume.
- OK will do, salt is aquarium salt and amount was applicable to fish aquarium maintenence amounts. Do you think this is ok? Below you mention that you only use salt to medicate but above it seems you are advising to replace salt.


- 1. Size of tank
- The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.
- Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.
- How do I rinse out gravel if no tap water? I usually swish the water through the gravel to get it clean.


- The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.
- Do get dechlorinator like Seachem Prime and start using now. Chloramines are very stable and will not disperse by aerating or boiling water. I don't use salt with frogs unless medicating at 1 teaspoon per 1.25 gal. Note that it should be aquarium salt; not table salt for humans.
- I actually keep a 29gal and a 10gal with fish and usually put the salt in the tank there as well. I can get dechlorinator. Are you advising dechlorinator and let water sit as well?


- I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.
- Make sure gravel can't be ingested by frog. If it can; get a larger substrate because is can become an impaction hazard.
- I can change to either really small sand recommended by Louis or larger rocks.


- His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.
- Please take a look at this care sheet for more feeding ideas appropriate to your frog size: Care Sheet: African Dwarf Frog.
- It seems most of the comments in that care sheet are for a dwarf frog and I actually think my frog is a clawed frog. Is that correct? It also seems that my tank size is ok for my frog then since they recommend 1gal per dwarf frog and my frog is the same size as a dwarf frog.

- No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.
- If frog is what I think; water should not drop below 70F and better if higher. Will worry about this once dealt with bacteria.
- Ok, I can come back to this one.

I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.
OK, change 50% per previous comments.
- OK



- 2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
- Can't open attachments.
- mmm. I wonder why. I dont know how to add them correctly. I used "insert image" button.


- Once per day and no additional treats.
- See previous comments.
- ok


- Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.
- Let's try 50% daily per previous comments.
- Ok, I will start this tomorrow since I dont have a good dechlorinator (one that I can read the directions on anyway) and no water aside overnight.


OK, my thoughts are that the salt is slow acting and will take some time to work. (Rob - salt is in tank all the time.) Issue with medicating is that the size of tank makes it challenging. Will look around some more for possible anti-biotics or maybe try Melafix (have to check if safe). Keeps those pics of frog handy to compare with frog in a couple day's to check for improvement. Good luck ! (Thank you)

[mpmistr]

Hi Rob. Just some additional questions and advice here, I genuinely want to help you and your frog.

We need to establish what type of frog you have because these species are very different. The size and age of your frog leads me to believe it is an african dwarf frog (hymenochirus) but the physical description sounds much like the larger african clawed frog (xenopus laevis).



This is an african dwarf frog. They are around the size you describe when adults.



This is an african clawed frog (albino, one of my own actually) these guys get 3-5+ inches depending on gender. The females are larger.

Are you sure if is an african clawed frog? I ask because african clawed frogs (the big guys) are fairly salt tolerant and the smaller african dwarf frog really isn't so you have to be a lot more careful if you attempt a salt treatment.

I do believe that by treating this frog however we are still ignoring the fact it is residing in too small amount of water to survive in the long run. You really must address the size of the tank the frog is kept in for any successful treatment to have any lasting effect. 1 gallon just isn't enough, it's not enough for an african dwarf frog and it's way too little for an african clawed frog as I previously mentioned.

I strongly feel that by having a proper sized tank, filtration, using a water dechlorinator (the heavy metals and chlorine in tap is toxic to frogs) and a cycled tank will put this frog on the path to recovery faster than salt treatments or other medications sold in pet stores. If the frog continues to show signs of bloating and his conditions do not improve after the husbandry improves perhaps then will be the time to move to more aggressive treatments. I am a firm believer that chemicals should be a last resort as many times it does more harm than good. I am absolutely positive that with proper care this frogs bloat will subside.

I hope this helps.

[rob2000]

HI Michael,
Thank you for the write up and the pictures. He/she definitely looks like the one in the bottom picture. I tried again to attach my pictures.
I do have a 5gal tank that I could move to, I am just not sure how to do it with little stress and I was concerned it would be too deep and difficult for him to get to the top. What are your thoughts on that part?
I myself am hesitant to put medications in the tank because I feel that clean water etc will help which is why I am doing more water changes religiously in the meantime. I also kept him in a smaller tank because it was much easier for me to keep clean more often which I thought was a good thing. I will definitely get a dechlorinator on my way home tomorrow.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I will agree it does look like a ACF.
Moving it to the 5 g can be very easy.

I would start using some water from one of you other tanks to get the 5 Gal
started. It will have some of the bacteria to help get the cycle started.
and if you can get a small sachet of gravel from the same tank you got the water from
that would be great.
Does the 5 G have a filter?

I would also put a small fish in it like a tetra to help get it cycled.
then you can move it to your other tank.

you would move him like you would a fish.

[rob2000]

HI there. 1/2 of 5 gal filled with fresh clean water. Will pick up dechlorinator tomorrow. Im concerned to use water from other tank since last frog in that tank died and just lost a fish recently. Other fish are healthy but I wont know if there is any bad bacteria in there. The 5 gal has a filter but it was used to house a sick fish previously and not sure how to clean it well. Stressed.. lol. Will figure it out though if it is best for Frogee for sure.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Best is a 10% solution of clorox and water. and rinse out with a mixture of over dosed de-chlorinator and tap water.
3X the normal dose for 1 gallon,

and then rinse with plain de Chlorinated water

let sit over night dry and see if you still smell any clorox
if there is any hard water stains a paper towel damped with white vinegar will do the trick
and that will kill just about any bug.

[Necromencer]

Hey Rob,

I know you're worried about the depth of the water, but it shouldn't really be an issue. As long as the tank isn't extremely tall (12''+) then the frog shouldn't have much of a problem. It's always best to go for a longer tank than a higher tank.
Here is a picture of my current tank I'm using now (the big one). As you can see, it's quite deep. I have my water filled almost to the top and I've been observing my frogs for fatigue and difficulty getting air, and they have no problems what so ever. My frogs are roughly the same size as your one now, you can see one of my frogs in my profile picture. I do recommend that you get either a basking platform or floating plants. This is more so for my species of frog (Silurana Tropicalis [xenopus]), but I'm sure your frog would appreciate it too. With either a basking platform or floating plants, your frog can attach itself to it and rest there, instead of having to go up and down for water all the time.

Hope this helps

[Mentat]

HI there. 1/2 of 5 gal filled with fresh clean water. Will pick up dechlorinator tomorrow. Im concerned to use water from other tank since last frog in that tank died and just lost a fish recently. Other fish are healthy but I wont know if there is any bad bacteria in there. The 5 gal has a filter but it was used to house a sick fish previously and not sure how to clean it well. Stressed.. lol. Will figure it out though if it is best for Frogee for sure.

Hi Rob! Have not read all new posts yet but will answer this one. One quick option to 10% soak is to use a clean sponge or paper towel (in ventilated area, wear old clothes, rubber gloves and eye protection) soak it in plain house bleach (Clorox) and go over all surfaces of tank, filter, glass tops, etc. Let it be for ten minutes and rinse well in tap water. Then prepare a concentrated dechlorinator solution (about 4x strong) and go over everything with it; done.

For plastic decor make plain bleach solution at 1 part bleach to 10 parts water and soak all plastic decor there for 24 hours and then rinse in tap water.

Natural gravel (not painted or clear coated) can be baked in oven. Make tray with aluminum foil and spread it on it, then cook for 1 hour at 250F, turn oven off and let it remain in overnight... done. For colored or clear coated gravel would just throw away and replace.

For filter media; dispose of all filter pads and get new ones. Plastic bio-balls can be handled as the plastic decor and any sintered glass media/lava rock/etc. can be baked with gravel (do not soak anything porous like gravel or media in bleach). Good luck !

[rodsboys]

I will agree it does look like a ACF.
Moving it to the 5 g can be very easy.

I would start using some water from one of you other tanks to get the 5 Gal
started. It will have some of the bacteria to help get the cycle started.
and if you can get a small sachet of gravel from the same tank you got the water from
that would be great.
Does the 5 G have a filter?

I would also put a small fish in it like a tetra to help get it cycled.
then you can move it to your other tank.

you would move him like you would a fish.

This isn't sound advice, the kind of bacteria that establish the nitrogen cycle are not present in the water column and I would never recommend adding a fish or any other creature to a tank that will already be pushing the limits. This guy is striving hard to improve the condition and life style of his frog so lets not stear him in the wrong direction.

[Mentat]

...
- OK will do, salt is aquarium salt and amount was applicable to fish aquarium maintenence amounts. Do you think this is ok? Below you mention that you only use salt to medicate but above it seems you are advising to replace salt.

- Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.
- How do I rinse out gravel if no tap water? I usually swish the water through the gravel to get it clean.

...Are you advising dechlorinator and let water sit as well?

- It seems most of the comments in that care sheet are for a dwarf frog and I actually think my frog is a clawed frog. Is that correct? It also seems that my tank size is ok for my frog then since they recommend 1gal per dwarf frog and my frog is the same size as a dwarf frog.

Agree with Jen that appears you have a stunted ACF. I only use salt to medicate frogs, did advice you to replace it as you water change for that issue. If you have always used salt and frog still got sick; then think it will not help in this case. Understand your decision not to medicate, that is your choice. Recommend then follow Jen's advice and see how that goes.

Reason I stated not to wash gravel in tap water is because you do not use a filter and the small amount of good bacteria live in that gravel. By washing it on tap you kill them and the ammonia/nitrite problem becomes permanent. So swishing in removed tank water is similar to "vacuuming" gravel during water change in bigger tank.

After using dechlorinator in proper dose can use water immediately if same temperature.

Understand frog is not a Dwarf Clawed Frog; reason referenced that care sheet was to point out additional feeding items .

[rob2000]

Hi All,
Thank you for your feedback.
I have put aside about 3/4 of the 5gal tank of water and have an additional gallon set aside seperately that i can add as well. It has been sitting since late last night. I also bought a dechlorinator called Kordon NovAqua Plus Water Conditioner to remove the cloramines. I did not clean the tank with clorox which is my only concern. The fish that was housed in that tank died over a month ago and the tank was dry. Do we think that I should start over with clorox and wait for temp to return to room temperature again or would bacteria be dead already. It was only used for 2 days and no algae grew on it etc.

I did get some white and black sand for that tank instead of the "bite sized" gravel.
I already had the ammonia kit so I bought the Nitrate kit (nitrite kit was not there) and I am going to test the water tonight now that it has been 2 days and see what is happening in there before dumping that water.
I have to get some new filter media before using the filter but the increased water will hopefully help. Just worried he will not like the current since he isnt used to that.
Will keep you posted when I do the tests. He is still active and looking for food today.

[rob2000]

HI all,
I didnt have the test kit for nitrites but I did test for ammonia, nitrates and pH.
Nitrates were 0
Ammonia was just about .25ppm (slightly green)
pH was acidic.

Seems that you were all correct and the water quality is horrible. I had no idea that such a small frog could make the water change so fast and thought that the weekly change was ok. I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time.

Thoughts?

[mpmistr]

HI all,
I didnt have the test kit for nitrites but I did test for ammonia, nitrates and pH.
Nitrates were 0
Ammonia was just about .25ppm (slightly green)
pH was acidic.

Seems that you were all correct and the water quality is horrible. I had no idea that such a small frog could make the water change so fast and thought that the weekly change was ok. I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time.

Thoughts?

Never use soap on an aquarium the residue lingers for a very long time and is toxic to frogs and fish. The best way to clean out an aquarium for use again is bleach, rinse it out a ton (and I mean a lot), then use a dechlorinater.

Have you considered picking up a cheapo 10 gallon tank at Walmart of PetCo? I think for about 10 bucks that would give your frog enough space.

[rob2000]

So Frogee is in his new home. I need to figure out the best filter for the 5 gal (that was the best tank I had to upgrade to tonight so that he got out of that crappy water) such as underwater or cascading and plants. I will consider the 10gal. He seems to be ok so far. He went into his little cave rock for about 3 min and now is out in the front looking for food. I did not add salt back into the tank. Let me know if you guys feel that I should because of the bloating or if I should leave it out.
Ill continue to feed froggee bites for now and will leave out the freeze dried blood worms until bloating subsides a bit (hopefully).
Will keep you posted tomorow.

[Mentat]

...I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time. Thoughts?

Wow Rob... I'm both surprised and confused about this comment. Did you used soap because someone told you or is that an established practice when you clean your fish and frog tanks? The reason I ask is because soap is a great human skin antibacterial; but a very toxic substance in aquatic environments. Nothing (brushes, pails, etc.) that comes in contact with soap should be shared when cleaning fish/frog tanks and the tank itself should never be washed with soap. If you have used soap in the past, that probably explains your fish deaths and frog ailments .

[rob2000]

No, I havent had to wash any of my tanks (for disinfecting purposes) and actually it is not a regular occasion that I loose fish believe it or not. I have not used any soap in frogees environment in the past so that is definitely not the cause of any of his issues.

[rodsboys]

Hi All,
Thank you for your feedback.
I have put aside about 3/4 of the 5gal tank of water and have an additional gallon set aside seperately that i can add as well. It has been sitting since late last night. I also bought a dechlorinator called Kordon NovAqua Plus Water Conditioner to remove the cloramines. I did not clean the tank with clorox which is my only concern. The fish that was housed in that tank died over a month ago and the tank was dry. Do we think that I should start over with clorox and wait for temp to return to room temperature again or would bacteria be dead already. It was only used for 2 days and no algae grew on it etc.

I did get some white and black sand for that tank instead of the "bite sized" gravel.
I already had the ammonia kit so I bought the Nitrate kit (nitrite kit was not there) and I am going to test the water tonight now that it has been 2 days and see what is happening in there before dumping that water.
I have to get some new filter media before using the filter but the increased water will hopefully help. Just worried he will not like the current since he isnt used to that.
Will keep you posted when I do the tests. He is still active and looking for food today.

Good news and great progress.

[rob2000]

I should also say, thank you all for your help. I am hoping this will really improve frogee's life with me and although we got off to a rough start, I am very happy that I was able to gather some great information.

I will keep updating until bloat decreases (hopefully). I may need some assistance in making sure the tank cycles properly.
I did not rinse his small housing cave on the last change to the 5gal so hopefully some good bacteria hung around.

[Felis]

Hi,

do you know anyone with a healthy, cycled tank? Then you could ask this person to give you some dirt from a matured filter to seed your tank with beneficial bacteria. However, this bacteria are aerobic and die off quickly, so the transport shouldn´t last longer than about one hour. You would still need to test the water in your frog´s new home, but this procedure greatly helps to shorten the cycling.

P.S.: I would recommend very robust plants such as Anubias sp. or Bolbitis heudelotii, and cheap, fast growing species (e.g. Ceratophyllum sp., Egeria sp., Lemna minor, Najas sp. etc. With floating plants, you don´t have problems with your frog displanting them ). Especially fast growing plants help to improve the water quality and provide hiding places for the frog. Thin-leafed plants are easily damaged by the frog´s claws and at least in my tank, they don´t do well. Personally I like Echinodorus very much, but they just don´t really work with my ACFs.