Clawed Frog Bloated

[Mentat]

HI,
I have an african clawed frog for about 3 years now and recently he seems very bloated. Not to extreme bloating stage but about 1/2 way. I havent noticed additional bloating over last few days but no decrease either.
I change water every week since only 1gal with no filtration which has been no issue until now.
He eats regularly and has had no appetite loss since bloating began.
I add 1/2 tsp of salt to the 1gal of water weekly.
Temperature is usually between 68 degrees F and 72 degrees F.
No other animal/fish etc is in the tank with him.

I read online that MarOxy is a good medication to use for this but I am concerned. Anyone have any experience with MarOxy with clawed frog and any sucess with this issue?

Any ideas would be great. Until then I am going to do water changes every 3 days instead to see if that helps.

Thanks!

Hello Rob and welcome to FF ! Could you please answer the following questions and provide pics of both frog and enclosure, thank you!

1. Size of tank

5. Water - source and chemicals (dechlorinator, conditioners, medications) added.

6. Materials used for substrate

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants- How were things prepared prior to being put into tank.

8. Main food source

10. Lighting

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the water

12. When is the last time he/she ate

13. Have you found poop lately

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and tank (any including cell phone pic is fine)

15. How old is the frog

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

MarOxy by Mardel is an anti-fungal fish medication with some effect against bacteria. Although I'm not aware of successful anti-bloating treatments with MarOxy; maybe you can share link with info so we are all clear about it.

Do you have an aquarium test kit available? If not, can you take a clean water sample to your local Pet Shop and request a complimentary analysis of Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Please take sample before you do a water change; otherwise we are just testing your source water. After you have results then please share here.

The frog is suffering edema because it's Lymph Hearts are failing due to a possible bacterial attack. Treating against the bacteria without correcting the cause that compromised the frog's immunity and gave rise to bacteria bloom inside frog is just a temporary fix. The medicine chemical bath could actually make things worse in the presence of Ammonia and other toxic chemicals. Hope to hear from you soon and good luck !

[mpmistr]

MarOxy by Mardel is an anti-fungal fish medication with some effect against bacteria. Although I'm not aware of successful anti-bloating treatments with MarOxy; maybe you can share link with info so we are all clear about it.

The medication (which in this case will not even treat bloat as you've mentioned) is moot. The problem here is environmental, 1 gallon is not enough water to support these frogs. Not enough room for the frog to move around, and more than likely becomes foul/toxic very quickly. It's 10% of the water volume recommended to keep these frogs at a minimum.

Do you have an aquarium test kit available? If not, can you take a clean water sample to your local Pet Shop and request a complimentary

analysis of Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Please take sample before you do a water change; otherwise we are just testing your source water. After you have results then please share here.

It's 1 gallon of water, there's nothing to really test here. Even in a laboratory (in which these frogs are not meant to live out their entire natural lives) these conditions are unacceptable. There simply isn't enough water to support this animal and now it is dying.

The frog is suffering edema because it's Lymph Hearts are failing due to a possible bacterial attack. Treating against the bacteria without correcting the cause that compromised the frog's immunity and gave rise to bacteria bloom inside frog is just a temporary fix. The medicine chemical bath could actually make things worse in the presence of Ammonia and other toxic chemicals. Hope to hear from you soon and good luck !

You're 100% correct. This is a dying/suffering animal that needs to be cared for properly and must have a larger volume of water to live in to recover. Dumping chemicals on this frog will simply exasperated the situation.

To OP: Please provide a better and more suitable environment for your frog so he can recover from this. Even if you hate me, think I'm a mean jerk and would like the earth swallow me up, whatever. I urge you to please follow the given advice from myself and others on this forum and please provide an adequate aquarium for this animal so it does not need to suffer any longer than it has.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

People, Take a deep breath.

We need to back off a little bit here.
And let cooler heads prevail.
Rob came here for help not beratement.

We all agree that the frog is ill and needs help.

And I will agree that larger accommodations are in order.

And adding any drugs or chemicals is ill advised especially since dosing would be very difficult giving the
small volume of water. What kind of salt are you using , If it is iodized table salt. Stop I have always heard that is really bad to use iodized salt in aquariums.


I totally agree with Carlos,

I would first recomend that he take a sample of the water to a local fish store and have it tested by some one
that has done tests many times. (Rob if you see them use test strips and not small bottles of reagent to do the testing go to another store.)
And see if the problem is being caused by a water quality issue.

Until you get that test I would cut back on feeding by 1/2 until this issue is resolved.
Is the frog eating ok.
And please answer Carlos questions that will help us understand what is going on.

[rob2000]

HI Louis and Carlos,
I thank you very much for trying to find out more information and for trying to save me from the patronizing and belittling comments from other users. It is not what is being said but the way that it is being said. I just want to find a resolution to the problem and will do anything I need to in order to help. I also think that there is a misunderstanding of exactly how big this frog is. He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.

You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?

That being said. I will answer your questions from above:

1. Size of tank
The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.

5. Water - source and chemicals (dechlorinator, conditioners, medications) added.
The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.

6. Materials used for substrate
I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants- How were things prepared prior to being put into tank.
See above point #1. Items were rinsed in hot water prior to putting into tank. These have been in tank for at least a year. No live plants are used.

8. Main food source
His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.

10. Lighting
Lighting is basically room lighting. I didnt want the tank to be too bright. Natural light from the outdoors is standard. I have a towel over the back of the tank for shelter and shade when needed.

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the water
No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.

12. When is the last time he/she ate
He eats one time per day in low doses.

13. Have you found poop lately
I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and tank (any including cell phone pic is fine)
2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
Attachment 53357
Attachment 53358
15. How old is the frog
Frog is about 3 years old.

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
Once per day and no additional treats.

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
Low traffic. It is in a bed room on top of a dresser.

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)
Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.

I hope this helps. I also read that frogs dont like the water deep because they want to get to the surface for air so I am confused on how you would use a 20gal tank which would make the tank over 1ft deep for a frog that is so small.

Thanks for your help.

[Mentat]

...He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.
Could you please tell me if the eyes are on top of head or on sides. Also, are front hands webbed or not?

You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?
Go ahead and do test tomorrow prior to water change. Until we solve this, might want to do 50% water change daily (with dechlorinator - see below). Remember to replace salt removed by volume.

1. Size of tank
The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.
Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.

The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.
Do get dechlorinator like Seachem Prime and start using now. Chloramines are very stable and will not disperse by aerating or boiling water. I don't use salt with frogs unless medicating at 1 teaspoon per 1.25 gal. Note that it should be aquarium salt; not table salt for humans.

I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.
Make sure gravel can't be ingested by frog. If it can; get a larger substrate because is can become an impaction hazard.

His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.
Please take a look at this care sheet for more feeding ideas appropriate to your frog size: http://www.frogforum.net/care-sheet-...warf-frog.html.

No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.
If frog is what I think; water should not drop below 70F and better if higher. Will worry about this once dealt with bacteria.

I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.
OK, change 50% per previous comments.

2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
Can't open attachments.

Once per day and no additional treats.
See previous comments.

Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.
Let's try 50% daily per previous comments.

OK, my thoughts are that the salt is slow acting and will take some time to work. Issue with medicating is that the size of tank makes it challenging. Can you get a bottle of Melafix at your local pet or fish shop. It's a natural anti-bacterial that I read is safe for frogs (when dosed correctly). Only thing is, can't find if there are any side effects on a bloated frog. Keeps those pics of frog handy to compare with frog in a couple day's to check for improvement. Good luck !

[rob2000]

Sorry I dont know how to do that quote response thing. I hope this will suffice.

- ...He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.
- Could you please tell me if the eyes are on top of head or on sides. Also, are front hands webbed or not?
- Eyes are mostly on top of head I would say but off to sides slightly and front hands are not webbed.



- You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?
- Go ahead and do test tomorrow prior to water change. Until we solve this, might want to do 50% water change daily (with dechlorinator - see below). Remember to replace salt removed by volume.
- OK will do, salt is aquarium salt and amount was applicable to fish aquarium maintenence amounts. Do you think this is ok? Below you mention that you only use salt to medicate but above it seems you are advising to replace salt.


- 1. Size of tank
- The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.
- Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.
- How do I rinse out gravel if no tap water? I usually swish the water through the gravel to get it clean.


- The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.
- Do get dechlorinator like Seachem Prime and start using now. Chloramines are very stable and will not disperse by aerating or boiling water. I don't use salt with frogs unless medicating at 1 teaspoon per 1.25 gal. Note that it should be aquarium salt; not table salt for humans.
- I actually keep a 29gal and a 10gal with fish and usually put the salt in the tank there as well. I can get dechlorinator. Are you advising dechlorinator and let water sit as well?


- I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.
- Make sure gravel can't be ingested by frog. If it can; get a larger substrate because is can become an impaction hazard.
- I can change to either really small sand recommended by Louis or larger rocks.


- His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.
- Please take a look at this care sheet for more feeding ideas appropriate to your frog size: Care Sheet: African Dwarf Frog.
- It seems most of the comments in that care sheet are for a dwarf frog and I actually think my frog is a clawed frog. Is that correct? It also seems that my tank size is ok for my frog then since they recommend 1gal per dwarf frog and my frog is the same size as a dwarf frog.

- No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.
- If frog is what I think; water should not drop below 70F and better if higher. Will worry about this once dealt with bacteria.
- Ok, I can come back to this one.

I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.
OK, change 50% per previous comments.
- OK



- 2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
- Can't open attachments.
- mmm. I wonder why. I dont know how to add them correctly. I used "insert image" button.


- Once per day and no additional treats.
- See previous comments.
- ok


- Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.
- Let's try 50% daily per previous comments.
- Ok, I will start this tomorrow since I dont have a good dechlorinator (one that I can read the directions on anyway) and no water aside overnight.


OK, my thoughts are that the salt is slow acting and will take some time to work. (Rob - salt is in tank all the time.) Issue with medicating is that the size of tank makes it challenging. Will look around some more for possible anti-biotics or maybe try Melafix (have to check if safe). Keeps those pics of frog handy to compare with frog in a couple day's to check for improvement. Good luck ! (Thank you)

[mpmistr]

Hi Rob. Just some additional questions and advice here, I genuinely want to help you and your frog.

We need to establish what type of frog you have because these species are very different. The size and age of your frog leads me to believe it is an african dwarf frog (hymenochirus) but the physical description sounds much like the larger african clawed frog (xenopus laevis).



This is an african dwarf frog. They are around the size you describe when adults.



This is an african clawed frog (albino, one of my own actually) these guys get 3-5+ inches depending on gender. The females are larger.

Are you sure if is an african clawed frog? I ask because african clawed frogs (the big guys) are fairly salt tolerant and the smaller african dwarf frog really isn't so you have to be a lot more careful if you attempt a salt treatment.

I do believe that by treating this frog however we are still ignoring the fact it is residing in too small amount of water to survive in the long run. You really must address the size of the tank the frog is kept in for any successful treatment to have any lasting effect. 1 gallon just isn't enough, it's not enough for an african dwarf frog and it's way too little for an african clawed frog as I previously mentioned.

I strongly feel that by having a proper sized tank, filtration, using a water dechlorinator (the heavy metals and chlorine in tap is toxic to frogs) and a cycled tank will put this frog on the path to recovery faster than salt treatments or other medications sold in pet stores. If the frog continues to show signs of bloating and his conditions do not improve after the husbandry improves perhaps then will be the time to move to more aggressive treatments. I am a firm believer that chemicals should be a last resort as many times it does more harm than good. I am absolutely positive that with proper care this frogs bloat will subside.

I hope this helps.

[Mentat]

...
- OK will do, salt is aquarium salt and amount was applicable to fish aquarium maintenence amounts. Do you think this is ok? Below you mention that you only use salt to medicate but above it seems you are advising to replace salt.

- Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.
- How do I rinse out gravel if no tap water? I usually swish the water through the gravel to get it clean.

...Are you advising dechlorinator and let water sit as well?

- It seems most of the comments in that care sheet are for a dwarf frog and I actually think my frog is a clawed frog. Is that correct? It also seems that my tank size is ok for my frog then since they recommend 1gal per dwarf frog and my frog is the same size as a dwarf frog.

Agree with Jen that appears you have a stunted ACF. I only use salt to medicate frogs, did advice you to replace it as you water change for that issue. If you have always used salt and frog still got sick; then think it will not help in this case. Understand your decision not to medicate, that is your choice. Recommend then follow Jen's advice and see how that goes.

Reason I stated not to wash gravel in tap water is because you do not use a filter and the small amount of good bacteria live in that gravel. By washing it on tap you kill them and the ammonia/nitrite problem becomes permanent. So swishing in removed tank water is similar to "vacuuming" gravel during water change in bigger tank.

After using dechlorinator in proper dose can use water immediately if same temperature.

Understand frog is not a Dwarf Clawed Frog; reason referenced that care sheet was to point out additional feeding items .

[flybyferns]

Sigh........So this thread is now, sadly, under very watchful eyes.
Replies- here- have been reported .

And such good information here, too!

New members should be readily distinguishable from others. Because they are new. We like new!
We need to remember how , why , and when we posted our 1st questions.
Rob has hit the "nail on the head "It is not what is being said but the way that it is being said"
--
All FF members need to use, at all times, friendly and sportively- written advice to all members .
I understand, how easy it is to get upset when we see another frog's care could possibly be causing it's problems or illness.
--
I see replies here have a 'mounted guard' on behalf of this frog. It is easy to get upset when all we are are trying to do is take care of the frog. Especially when they are struggling. Sometimes, good intentions are not clearly understood. This is a learning environment .........in many respects. We need to be objective when, those of us, ( including myself ) are given advice as to how to correct a possible mistake or make needed adjustments in day to day care. We need to have patience and understanding that a reply is always intended to HELP.

We ALL need to set watch for those who seek help , be sharp but NOT bite back, and by all means keep our cool.

Carlos and Louis ,
Thank you for your calming replies.

Let's get this back on track
Lynn

[rob2000]

Thank you Lynn.