Clawed Frog Bloated

[rob2000]

HI,
I have an african clawed frog for about 3 years now and recently he seems very bloated. Not to extreme bloating stage but about 1/2 way. I havent noticed additional bloating over last few days but no decrease either.
I change water every week since only 1gal with no filtration which has been no issue until now.
He eats regularly and has had no appetite loss since bloating began.
I add 1/2 tsp of salt to the 1gal of water weekly.
Temperature is usually between 68 degrees F and 72 degrees F.
No other animal/fish etc is in the tank with him.

I read online that MarOxy is a good medication to use for this but I am concerned. Anyone have any experience with MarOxy with clawed frog and any sucess with this issue?

Any ideas would be great. Until then I am going to do water changes every 3 days instead to see if that helps.

Thanks!

[Felis]

Hi,

an ACF in 1 gal of water?! That´s way too small, even for an ADF! It´s simply impossible to provide good environmental conditions in that little volume. Toxic nitrogen compounds like ammonia and nitrite build up rapidly (within a few hours), especially when the frog grows. Frogs don´t like salt, it shouldn´t be added on a regular basis. Please read here FrogsArtNeale and fix the environment ASAP, otherwise this frog is doomed. No medication or MarOxy or whatever will safe it unless you change your keeping conditions drastically.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, I surely don´t want to insult you- but it´s necessary to clearly state that deathtraps like one gallon "tanks" are absolutely inappropriate for animal keeping. The fact that this poor frog was able to survive in there for three years only shows how tough they are; it´s not to be misunderstood as a proof that everything is fine.

[mpmistr]

I change water every week since only 1gal with no filtration which has been no issue until now.

I put the above statement in a large, bold, red font because this is exactly why your frog is suffering/dying.

Put away your epsom salt, your MarOxy, and whatever various potions your local Petsmart/Petco sell that would have you believe it solve this serious problem and please take that money saved and do the following:

1. Purchase a 10 gallon aquarium from Walmart or PetCo, which are often sold at $1/gallon. est. price $13
2. Purchase a filter capable of double capacity of said 10 gallons, a Whisper 20i would work. est. price $15
3. Purchase a good water conditioner such as Prime or Stress Coat and perform weekly 50% water changes on the 10 gallon aquarium. est. price $8-12 for the water conditioner.

For $40 dollars you can provide your frog the adequate, though minimal housing it needs to live. If the frog is only slightly bloated, assuming it is soft bloat when you place the frog in proper conditions it should rebound and begin to heal. These are VERY hardy amphibians but these conditions will cause a premature death. Do these things before his condition worsens and he is beyond recovery.

Sorry to be blunt but I am being 100% honest with you. Medications will not solve this, this frog needs to be placed in better conditions and what I've described are the very minimum conditions these frogs need to live. If you can afford a larger than 10 gallon tank, perhaps a 20 gallon long tank, and a stronger filter perhaps a Whisper 40i or equivalent then please, provide larger housing for this frog. The more the better.

If $40 is too steep I strongly urge you to rehome the frog, it will not survive much longer in the conditions you are keeping it.

[Necromencer]

I put the above statement in a large, bold, red font because this is exactly why your frog is suffering/dying.

Put away your epsom salt, your MarOxy, and whatever various potions your local Petsmart/Petco sell that would have you believe it solve this serious problem and please take that money saved and do the following:

1. Purchase a 10 gallon aquarium from Walmart or PetCo, which are often sold at $1/gallon. est. price $13
2. Purchase a filter capable of double capacity of said 10 gallons, a Whisper 20i would work. est. price $15
3. Purchase a good water conditioner such as Prime or Stress Coat and perform weekly 50% water changes on the 10 gallon aquarium. est. price $8-12 for the water conditioner.

For $40 dollars you can provide your frog the adequate, though minimal housing it needs to live. If the frog is only slightly bloated, assuming it is soft bloat when you place the frog in proper conditions it should rebound and begin to heal. These are VERY hardy amphibians but these conditions will cause a premature death. Do these things before his condition worsens and he is beyond recovery.

Sorry to be blunt but I am being 100% honest with you. Medications will not solve this, this frog needs to be placed in better conditions and what I've described are the very minimum conditions these frogs need to live. If you can afford a larger than 10 gallon tank, perhaps a 20 gallon long tank, and a stronger filter perhaps a Whisper 40i or equivalent then please, provide larger housing for this frog. The more the better.

If $40 is too steep I strongly urge you to rehome the frog, it will not survive much longer in the conditions you are keeping it.

1) IF this is the case, PLEASE follow this guy's intructions

2) IF you mean that you change 1G of water/week then the problem isn't as drastic, but still very serious.


EDIT: Nevermind, I just read that you put 1/2 spoon of salt into the ONE GALLON OF WATER.


I feel so sorry for this frog, how it lived three years perplexes me. It looks like you've done some very basic research, how could you exclude something so so basic when it comes to frog-keeping? I can't see any human being thinking this would be okay for a frog, seriously, I bet the frog can hardly move in a 4L environment...

[rob2000]

My reply:

First of all, I do not appreciate any of you speaking to me in the way you are speaking to me. I myself am an animal lover and would never do anything intentionally to hurt an animal. I have done research online and there are many varying opininons on frogs, how they should be kept and their reactions to salt. I wanted to seek some help from some others that might have different experiences. Your advice, although I see clearly that I have been doing something wrong, is rude and obnoxious. To be honest,your comments will only hurt other frogs in the future because people will be nervous to seek help and advice from people like you who may have good insight but are completely rude about giving an answer. It would have been enough for you to give me the feedback without the attitude.

I will take your comments into consideration obviously and make the environment as comfortable as I can for him but I do not appreciate the treatment I have been getting on this site and will take action to write to the heads of the site to advise on how rude you are.

Thank you

I put the above statement in a large, bold, red font because this is exactly why your frog is suffering/dying.

Put away your epsom salt, your MarOxy, and whatever various potions your local Petsmart/Petco sell that would have you believe it solve this serious problem and please take that money saved and do the following:

1. Purchase a 10 gallon aquarium from Walmart or PetCo, which are often sold at $1/gallon. est. price $13
2. Purchase a filter capable of double capacity of said 10 gallons, a Whisper 20i would work. est. price $15
3. Purchase a good water conditioner such as Prime or Stress Coat and perform weekly 50% water changes on the 10 gallon aquarium. est. price $8-12 for the water conditioner.

For $40 dollars you can provide your frog the adequate, though minimal housing it needs to live. If the frog is only slightly bloated, assuming it is soft bloat when you place the frog in proper conditions it should rebound and begin to heal. These are VERY hardy amphibians but these conditions will cause a premature death. Do these things before his condition worsens and he is beyond recovery.

Sorry to be blunt but I am being 100% honest with you. Medications will not solve this, this frog needs to be placed in better conditions and what I've described are the very minimum conditions these frogs need to live. If you can afford a larger than 10 gallon tank, perhaps a 20 gallon long tank, and a stronger filter perhaps a Whisper 40i or equivalent then please, provide larger housing for this frog. The more the better.

If $40 is too steep I strongly urge you to rehome the frog, it will not survive much longer in the conditions you are keeping it.

[Felis]

It´s sad that you see it like this. Everyone said as politely as possible what´s wrong with your frog and it won´t help if you just feel offended and retreat from the forum. I hope you really considerate to change your setup. I don´t know where you´ve got your information on frog keeping from, but it´s obviously not a reasonable source. As you already are pouting, I think it´s ok to say it clearly: you didn´t do your homework (which means you weren´t able to investigate the minimum requirements of those easy-to-keep-frogs) and you did everything wrong, which is why your pet is suffering now. Hopefully, you will change this situation (which is still possible), with or without further help of people who know how to keep these animals properly.

P.S.: you have quite a weird way to show your "love"; anyhow, frogs don´t care about being loved, they just need their basic needs to be met.

[Necromencer]

'I change water every week since only 1gal with no filtration which has been no issue until now.'


This is the problem I have with your comment. let's ignore everything else for a moment. You're playing the victim here, when that poor frog has lived three years in pauper conditions, because of your ignorance and misguidance. I'm quoting you, and I want to point out that you've mentioned that you change the water every week, but you have no filter. This seems to me that you've done your basic homework and research, but yet you've chose to go against what was recommended (every site I've seen says 10g/frog), and you've opted to go for whatever was most convenient for you, regardless of any potential ramifications. This is even more so, when you say: 'I've had no issue up to now'. That says to me that you were aware of the issues, because you knew that having no filtration or a small amount of water would be bad, but you chose not to give it a decent quality of life. That's how I read it.


Out response was quite tame (except the guy whom you quoted, who has a famous reputation for being bold and having an attitude), but this forum is dedicated to frogs, and to see this cruelty and torture only brings sadness and in some cases anger, because it was caused by a human, who could have dealt with the situation a lot better.


I don't know about you, but after three years I'm pretty sure I would know how to treat a frog, either by research or common sense (trial and error). After three years, I can imagine that you would see that the frog is too big to move, 1G must be visually small enough for you to understand this.

In addition, what responses would you expect if you found out that an adult woman was kept in a small cage for three years? I'm sure the responses of the person who put her there wouldn't be very good ones. We're not being personal at you, per se, but rather at your poor animal keeping skills and common sense.

Please, by all means, write to the head of the website, but I'm sure he'll understand, where we are coming from.


We would have given you a lot better response if you hadn't of been torturing your pet, excuse the boldness.

[mpmistr]

I humbly apologize for not simply validating your inadequate care for your animals.

Your frog's declining health is due to the poor conditions it is living in. I'm not sure how I am supposed to sugar coat this for you to make the statement more palatable but that is the bottom line here.

I don't know what else to tell you, if you simply wanted validation and want us to agree with adding chemicals to the water to fix an issue caused by the fact the frog is simply kept in an unfiltered and woefully tiny enclosure I guess you are out of luck friend.

Nothing I said to you was rude in any way. Sounds to me like you came here to get the answer you wanted to hear, not the answer you needed to hear. I never once insulted you, by all means please show me where I personally attacked you in this thread?

I provided you the information you need to save the life of your frog, no more no less.

[reptileszz]

My reply:

First of all, I do not appreciate any of you speaking to me in the way you are speaking to me. I myself am an animal lover and would never do anything intentionally to hurt an animal. I have done research online and there are many varying opininons on frogs, how they should be kept and their reactions to salt. I wanted to seek some help from some others that might have different experiences. Your advice, although I see clearly that I have been doing something wrong, is rude and obnoxious. To be honest,your comments will only hurt other frogs in the future because people will be nervous to seek help and advice from people like you who may have good insight but are completely rude about giving an answer. It would have been enough for you to give me the feedback without the attitude.

I will take your comments into consideration obviously and make the environment as comfortable as I can for him but I do not appreciate the treatment I have been getting on this site and will take action to write to the heads of the site to advise on how rude you are.

Thank you

This is very sad. You are not being treated poorly. You are being given important advice. You are keeping your frog in conditions that are obviously harmful. I suggest you step back, read the advice, follow it and you will have a happy healthy frog. If not I dont think you will have this frog anymore

Carole

Oops, should have read farther along. I am glad you are taking the advice. Your frog will be much healthier for it

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Oops, should have read farther along. I am glad you are taking the advice. Your frog will be much healthier for it

Yep a clear case of open mouth insert foot. LOL

[Jenste]

Let's stop worrying about talking about other members and let's focus on helping this frog.

Welcome Rob.

I highly recommend filling that 5 gallon up, not half way. I had frogs in 22" of water in my tanks and they thrived. At 3 years old, your frog should be full grown and depending on gender it should be over 3" of body length (nose to bottom, not including stretched out hind legs) if a male and over 5" if female.

The small tank, poor diet and inadequate water volume have stunted his growth. The 5 gallon will be a much healthier environment for him. While switching, I would not move over the gravel as he is looking rather rolly polly as it is and has problem ingested some which can be quite damaging to their insides. Opt for a bare bottom tank or a thin layer of sand in the new tank.

If you are going to keep not filtering, please do a 50% water change every three days. This will help him immensely - only treat the water with a fresh water conditioner like API, do not treat the tank with salt, pH buffers, ammonia remover etc. The fresher the water is, the more fresh water creatures appreciate it!

You already greatly improved his diet so well done there. Instead of freezedried brineshrimp try switching to the frozen brine shrimp cubes. Just cut off a small amount from the block (keep the rest of the block frozen), thaw his portion in tank water then feed. It is easiest to feed using a little plate on the bottom of the tank and squirting the sinking food onto it (the brine and depends on which type of pellet you use - some float, some sink). Feeding in the same place every time teaches the frog where to go when it smells food (their vision is awful!) and it keeps the tank cleaner by not having food scattered all over the place to be missed so it rots. Rotting food fouls the water.

[Mentat]

HI,
I have an african clawed frog for about 3 years now and recently he seems very bloated. Not to extreme bloating stage but about 1/2 way. I havent noticed additional bloating over last few days but no decrease either.
I change water every week since only 1gal with no filtration which has been no issue until now.
He eats regularly and has had no appetite loss since bloating began.
I add 1/2 tsp of salt to the 1gal of water weekly.
Temperature is usually between 68 degrees F and 72 degrees F.
No other animal/fish etc is in the tank with him.

I read online that MarOxy is a good medication to use for this but I am concerned. Anyone have any experience with MarOxy with clawed frog and any sucess with this issue?

Any ideas would be great. Until then I am going to do water changes every 3 days instead to see if that helps.

Thanks!

Hello Rob and welcome to FF ! Could you please answer the following questions and provide pics of both frog and enclosure, thank you!

1. Size of tank

5. Water - source and chemicals (dechlorinator, conditioners, medications) added.

6. Materials used for substrate

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants- How were things prepared prior to being put into tank.

8. Main food source

10. Lighting

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the water

12. When is the last time he/she ate

13. Have you found poop lately

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and tank (any including cell phone pic is fine)

15. How old is the frog

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

MarOxy by Mardel is an anti-fungal fish medication with some effect against bacteria. Although I'm not aware of successful anti-bloating treatments with MarOxy; maybe you can share link with info so we are all clear about it.

Do you have an aquarium test kit available? If not, can you take a clean water sample to your local Pet Shop and request a complimentary analysis of Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Please take sample before you do a water change; otherwise we are just testing your source water. After you have results then please share here.

The frog is suffering edema because it's Lymph Hearts are failing due to a possible bacterial attack. Treating against the bacteria without correcting the cause that compromised the frog's immunity and gave rise to bacteria bloom inside frog is just a temporary fix. The medicine chemical bath could actually make things worse in the presence of Ammonia and other toxic chemicals. Hope to hear from you soon and good luck !

[mpmistr]

MarOxy by Mardel is an anti-fungal fish medication with some effect against bacteria. Although I'm not aware of successful anti-bloating treatments with MarOxy; maybe you can share link with info so we are all clear about it.

The medication (which in this case will not even treat bloat as you've mentioned) is moot. The problem here is environmental, 1 gallon is not enough water to support these frogs. Not enough room for the frog to move around, and more than likely becomes foul/toxic very quickly. It's 10% of the water volume recommended to keep these frogs at a minimum.

Do you have an aquarium test kit available? If not, can you take a clean water sample to your local Pet Shop and request a complimentary

analysis of Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Please take sample before you do a water change; otherwise we are just testing your source water. After you have results then please share here.

It's 1 gallon of water, there's nothing to really test here. Even in a laboratory (in which these frogs are not meant to live out their entire natural lives) these conditions are unacceptable. There simply isn't enough water to support this animal and now it is dying.

The frog is suffering edema because it's Lymph Hearts are failing due to a possible bacterial attack. Treating against the bacteria without correcting the cause that compromised the frog's immunity and gave rise to bacteria bloom inside frog is just a temporary fix. The medicine chemical bath could actually make things worse in the presence of Ammonia and other toxic chemicals. Hope to hear from you soon and good luck !

You're 100% correct. This is a dying/suffering animal that needs to be cared for properly and must have a larger volume of water to live in to recover. Dumping chemicals on this frog will simply exasperated the situation.

To OP: Please provide a better and more suitable environment for your frog so he can recover from this. Even if you hate me, think I'm a mean jerk and would like the earth swallow me up, whatever. I urge you to please follow the given advice from myself and others on this forum and please provide an adequate aquarium for this animal so it does not need to suffer any longer than it has.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

People, Take a deep breath.

We need to back off a little bit here.
And let cooler heads prevail.
Rob came here for help not beratement.

We all agree that the frog is ill and needs help.

And I will agree that larger accommodations are in order.

And adding any drugs or chemicals is ill advised especially since dosing would be very difficult giving the
small volume of water. What kind of salt are you using , If it is iodized table salt. Stop I have always heard that is really bad to use iodized salt in aquariums.


I totally agree with Carlos,

I would first recomend that he take a sample of the water to a local fish store and have it tested by some one
that has done tests many times. (Rob if you see them use test strips and not small bottles of reagent to do the testing go to another store.)
And see if the problem is being caused by a water quality issue.

Until you get that test I would cut back on feeding by 1/2 until this issue is resolved.
Is the frog eating ok.
And please answer Carlos questions that will help us understand what is going on.

[rob2000]

HI Louis and Carlos,
I thank you very much for trying to find out more information and for trying to save me from the patronizing and belittling comments from other users. It is not what is being said but the way that it is being said. I just want to find a resolution to the problem and will do anything I need to in order to help. I also think that there is a misunderstanding of exactly how big this frog is. He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.

You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?

That being said. I will answer your questions from above:

1. Size of tank
The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.

5. Water - source and chemicals (dechlorinator, conditioners, medications) added.
The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.

6. Materials used for substrate
I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants- How were things prepared prior to being put into tank.
See above point #1. Items were rinsed in hot water prior to putting into tank. These have been in tank for at least a year. No live plants are used.

8. Main food source
His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.

10. Lighting
Lighting is basically room lighting. I didnt want the tank to be too bright. Natural light from the outdoors is standard. I have a towel over the back of the tank for shelter and shade when needed.

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the water
No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.

12. When is the last time he/she ate
He eats one time per day in low doses.

13. Have you found poop lately
I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and tank (any including cell phone pic is fine)
2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
Attachment 53357
Attachment 53358
15. How old is the frog
Frog is about 3 years old.

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
Once per day and no additional treats.

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
Low traffic. It is in a bed room on top of a dresser.

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)
Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.

I hope this helps. I also read that frogs dont like the water deep because they want to get to the surface for air so I am confused on how you would use a 20gal tank which would make the tank over 1ft deep for a frog that is so small.

Thanks for your help.

[Mentat]

...He is only about 1"-1.5" long and has plenty of space to move around or hide etc.
Could you please tell me if the eyes are on top of head or on sides. Also, are front hands webbed or not?

You commented on having the water tested. I have an ammonia test kit for my fish tanks that I could use to check water but since I just changed it yesterday I am not sure how helpful it would be. What are your thoughts?
Go ahead and do test tomorrow prior to water change. Until we solve this, might want to do 50% water change daily (with dechlorinator - see below). Remember to replace salt removed by volume.

1. Size of tank
The tank is 2Gal but since I read that frogs like shallow water, I only keep 1G in it. There are two plants in the tank similar to what you would put in a betta tank that the frog enjoys sitting under or on in some cases. There is also a little cave in the back of the tank with shelter so the frog can hide if he would like to.
Don't wash plants or gravel in tap water. Can use tank water to rinse.

The water is tap water and I do not add any chemicals for dechlorination. I do let the water sit for at least 24 hrs for temperature and dechlorination to occur. I read somewhere a long time ago that adding 1/2 tsp of salt to water is helpful to keep frog healthy although some here disagree.
Do get dechlorinator like Seachem Prime and start using now. Chloramines are very stable and will not disperse by aerating or boiling water. I don't use salt with frogs unless medicating at 1 teaspoon per 1.25 gal. Note that it should be aquarium salt; not table salt for humans.

I use a small rock gravel for substrate. I would say that it is about basic fish tank size.
Make sure gravel can't be ingested by frog. If it can; get a larger substrate because is can become an impaction hazard.

His main food source was fish flakes with some freeze dried brine shrimp but I recently updated to aquatic frog food with some freeze dried brine shrimp to help nutrition.
Please take a look at this care sheet for more feeding ideas appropriate to your frog size: http://www.frogforum.net/care-sheet-...warf-frog.html.

No mechanical items are used to heat water. The room temperature is always between 68-72 for the most part.
If frog is what I think; water should not drop below 70F and better if higher. Will worry about this once dealt with bacteria.

I cleaned the tank yesterday to keep water cleaner then the 1ce per week and yes I believe there was poop in there.
OK, change 50% per previous comments.

2 pictures below. One of him in front on tank (begging for food) and the second is more close up.
Can't open attachments.

Once per day and no additional treats.
See previous comments.

Water changes of entire gallon weekly until this week when I am changing every 3 days or so. All water gets changed out.
Let's try 50% daily per previous comments.

OK, my thoughts are that the salt is slow acting and will take some time to work. Issue with medicating is that the size of tank makes it challenging. Can you get a bottle of Melafix at your local pet or fish shop. It's a natural anti-bacterial that I read is safe for frogs (when dosed correctly). Only thing is, can't find if there are any side effects on a bloated frog. Keeps those pics of frog handy to compare with frog in a couple day's to check for improvement. Good luck !

[flybyferns]

Sigh........So this thread is now, sadly, under very watchful eyes.
Replies- here- have been reported .

And such good information here, too!

New members should be readily distinguishable from others. Because they are new. We like new!
We need to remember how , why , and when we posted our 1st questions.
Rob has hit the "nail on the head "It is not what is being said but the way that it is being said"
--
All FF members need to use, at all times, friendly and sportively- written advice to all members .
I understand, how easy it is to get upset when we see another frog's care could possibly be causing it's problems or illness.
--
I see replies here have a 'mounted guard' on behalf of this frog. It is easy to get upset when all we are are trying to do is take care of the frog. Especially when they are struggling. Sometimes, good intentions are not clearly understood. This is a learning environment .........in many respects. We need to be objective when, those of us, ( including myself ) are given advice as to how to correct a possible mistake or make needed adjustments in day to day care. We need to have patience and understanding that a reply is always intended to HELP.

We ALL need to set watch for those who seek help , be sharp but NOT bite back, and by all means keep our cool.

Carlos and Louis ,
Thank you for your calming replies.

Let's get this back on track
Lynn

[rob2000]

Thank you Lynn.