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Thread: New ACF not eating

  1. #1
    RockyGurly
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    Unhappy New ACF not eating

    Heyo, me again, here's my intro post for the whole skivvy: http://www.frogforum.net/aquatic-cla...-huge-acf.html
    In a nutshell, I'm a brand spankin' new owner who just adopted a severely neglected ACF. He's had nothing but minnows and goldfish for food for about four years, and I got him his reptomin and some earthworms. But so far he hasn't even really noticed the pellets, and I tried tweezer feeding him a small earthworm and he just swam away I got him three days ago, and I'm sure he's getting hungry. It isn't urgent yet since he's fairly big, but I'd like to know what I can do to encourage him to start eating before it becomes urgent. I can handle him if I need to hand feed him, he's really sweet and let me hold him and check him for injuries (after the doofus put him, tank, rock decorations and all, in the back of his truck and drove it to school > ) and he does sometimes swim over to see me if I'm doing something by the tank.
    Also, he's been making mating calls I can take that as a compliment, right? They're fairly pleasant to listen to
    I can get pictures of the setup if that would help? It's fairly bare right now, but it's still a huge improvement over the dump he was being kept in.

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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    OK, first thing need to do is please answer these questions and provide requested pics:

    1. Size of enclosure?


    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences?

    3. Humidity?

    4. Temperature?

    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish?

    6. Materials used for substrate?

    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv?

    8. Main food source?

    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often?)

    10. Lighting?

    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure?

    12. When is the last time he/she ate?

    13. Have you found poop lately?

    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)

    15. How old is the frog?

    16. How long have you owned him/her?

    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred?

    18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats?

    19. How often the frog is handled?

    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area?

    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

    If frog was fed live fish for 4 years it might not associate pellets or worms with food. Keep offering small amounts in morning and evenings but remove all non eaten food in 15 minutes. Could also try a product like this: JurassiPet. JurassiGuard to enhance flavor or just rub pellets in crushed garlic.

    More information to read here: Xenopus laevis care sheet; All About African Clawed Frogs; and In Depth Information on Common Aquatic Clawed Frogs. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  4. #3
    RockyGurly
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    1. a 20G long
    2. Just the one ACF
    3. I'm not sure, but the air (about 3 inches) feels like it might be in the 65%-75% range
    4. The water's been about 73F during the day and 71F at night
    5. Just plain ol' dechlor fresh water, and no dish?
    6. Currently none
    7. I cleaned everything with hot tap water and then rinsed it in dechlor, he has a corner gutter PVC pipe, a rock cave, a couple rock decor pieces and a large silk plant
    8. Reptomin
    9. None, so far
    10. None besides the natural lighting of the room
    11. Nothing, so far it's held without additional heating
    12. I have no idea It could of been a long time or as recent as last thursday
    13. I had one smallish poop that still had some coloured gravel in it, but so far no new poops
    14. I'll make another post for that in a sec when I get my camera going
    15. I would geuss 4 1/2 years to 5 years
    16. For four days
    17. Not sure, probably a cheap pet store impulse buy
    18. Reptomin is mainly being offered, but I tried a live earthworm and some frozen bloodworms
    19. So far once to check him for injuries, and a second time to move him from the baggie to the cleaned up tank
    20. Very low traffic, and 90% of the time, silent
    21. So far none, but I plan on 10% water changes every week or two, and regular spot cleaning for old food and poops
    I'll try the garlic thing, that's ok for them? Weird! :P

  5. #4
    RockyGurly
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

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    Here he is
    I know, I haven't gotten a filter yet I will very soon, until then I've been doing daily water changes (1-2 gallons)

  6. #5

    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    As long as he is active and looks healthy he can go quite a while without food. He's so used to the fish that he doesn't recognize worms or pellets as food yet. He can fast for at least a couple of weeks before the situation becomes worrisome. Just keep offering reptomin and worms every other day or so. Most likely he will eventually get hungry enough to try some. You might have given up to easily on handfeeding the earth worm. Try again and keep following him around the tank with it. You can give up after 5 min or so, but let him get used to the smell. I don't recommend using forceps to hand feed. If he gets really excited and tries to lunge at them he could poke an eye out or worse.
    So don't worry, you're doing everything right. The tank looks nice. Keep up the good work! and buy a filter

  7. #6
    RockyGurly
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    The filter is coming soon, I promise :P I'm planning on a 40-50 gallon one, but I can't decide on internal or external. I'm making a big pet store run soon though to grab some hideys, order some live plants and nightcrawlers and I'll see what she has available for filters and silk plants.
    I have these really long reptile tweezers with rubber ends, are those ok? Those are what I prefer anyways, so I don't have to stick my hand all the way in the water.
    I tried what you said, I followed him around and poked him with the wormy until he had a taste. He spat it out, but then he put it back in his mouth and ate a second one I'll keep trying the pellets and hope he'll take to those too. Thanks!

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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyGurly View Post
    I got him three days ago, and I'm sure he's getting hungry. It isn't urgent yet since he's fairly big.........

    Also, he's been making mating calls I can take that as a compliment, right?
    In my opinion there was no problem here. You acquired a large, healthy adult frog in breeding condition, which was more interested in breeding than eating. The sudden change in his environment probably triggered the calling. If he's been well fed previously he'll have sufficient reserves to last him for many months without food. Also, these frogs do occasionally go through phases of not eating, which is nothing to be concerned about.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyGurly View Post
    I've been doing daily water changes (1-2 gallons)
    I don't understand what useful purpose the daily water changes serve if the frog isn't producing any waste. If you get a filter please bear in mind that these frogs, unlike many fish, do not inhabit, and have not evolved to exist in, fast flowing waters so it's important not to subject it to a constant whirlpool.

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    100+ Post Member mpmistr's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    I don't understand what useful purpose the daily water changes serve if the frog isn't producing any waste. If you get a filter please bear in mind that these frogs, unlike many fish, do not inhabit, and have not evolved to exist in, fast flowing waters so it's important not to subject it to a constant whirlpool.
    I try to avoid current with my frogs too but some times this is hard. I use a canister filter and spray bar. I've tried pointing the spray bar toward the glass and tried to remove it and let the water filter in via just the hose but without a current I never can keep the nitrates down to an acceptable level. Last time I took off the spray bar and went to test my water after 1 week the nitrates were 80ppm which is insanely high for my tank, I usually show 5-10ppm nitrate (I am wondering if I goofed the test or did not shake the bottle well enough).

    I've not noticed any detrimental effect from using the spray bar, it's not a very strong current but it does cause the plants to sway a bit.

    A tank without some circulation tends to have problems in my experience, especially with plants.

    I am using an Eheim 2217 and a 40 gallon breeder 36"x18"x17".

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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyGurly View Post
    ...
    7. I cleaned everything with hot tap water and then rinsed it in dechlor, he has a corner gutter PVC pipe, a rock cave, a couple rock decor pieces and a large silk plant
    Make sure decor has no sharp edges and that frog can't get stuck in anything.

    13. I had one smallish poop that still had some coloured gravel in it, but so far no new poops
    If gravel in poop it's good frog is passing it. Stuck gravel in digestive system (impaction) could make it sick and cause death.

    18. Reptomin is mainly being offered, but I tried a live earthworm and some frozen bloodworms
    Glad it ate earthworm! Those are very nutritious. Good luck getting it to accept Reptomin.

    21. So far none, but I plan on 10% water changes every week or two, and regular spot cleaning for old food and poops
    I'll try the garlic thing, that's ok for them? Weird! :P

    Would recommend 25% water change a week; specially now that you do not have a filter. Might not see much poop, but frog is peeing urea and in an uncycled tank (more below) the Ammonia and Nitrite levels must be high.

    Garlic works as a taste enhancement in fish and frogs. If garlic oils are fresh, it's also a natural way to prevent some parasites.
    I answered some relevant questions above. A new tank set-up will cycle itself in around 30 days. Not sure how that number is affected when a filter is absent. Beneficial bacteria needs a surface to live on and not having a filter; will only exist on tank walls, decor, and gravel. During the stabilization period the Ammonia will peak and then go down and then Nitrites will peak. Then both Ammonia and Nitrite will reach zero and your tank is cycled.

    Your frog will be exposed to those bad chemicals; so observe it daily and note any changes in eating, swimming or pooping behavior. Here is link to article discussing several ACF diseases to give you idea what to look for: African Clawed Frog Disease and Injury. Do not over react, these frogs are pretty tough.

    During this time you can do normal weekly water changes. Do not wash gravel or decor in tap water; that will kill the good bacteria. Also, recommend not using ammonia removing media or liquids because they will sequester too much Ammonia from tank and will start a yo-yo effect that will make the process much longer. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  11. #10
    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Michael, What filter model do you have.

    I have an external fluval that has a lever on it to adjust the water flow.
    I have it set so the current isn't so strong in my 46G bowfront so the food will
    land in the feeding dish I have on top of the gravel.
    and allow the fish to rest at night.

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    100+ Post Member mpmistr's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Charles Bruckner View Post
    Michael, What filter model do you have.

    I have an external fluval that has a lever on it to adjust the water flow.
    I have it set so the current isn't so strong in my 46G bowfront so the food will
    land in the feeding dish I have on top of the gravel.
    and allow the fish to rest at night.
    Eheim 2217

  13. #12
    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    I have looked at that model and there isn't a built in way of regulating the water flow.
    in engineering if you are going to control a flow from a pump it is always better to restrict
    the intake of a pump rather than the output.
    you can use a simple c clamp to restrict the flow on the intake of the filter. Just be careful not to pinch the hose too much.

    If you can't do that you can make a drip bar across the back of the tank with a pice of PVC pipe and drill some 1/8 holes along the length of the pipe.

    you can use one 90 and a end cap and a hose nipple reducer.
    and put that on the output to the tank.

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    100+ Post Member mpmistr's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    I've considered tightening the shut off valve a bit to restrict water flow from the spray bar but I worry about having something bad happen and my living room going underwater.

  15. #14
    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Like I said it is not a good idea to restrict the output of a pump.
    like if there is a weak connection in between the valve and the pump it could cause a flood.

    I am planning on making a new habitat for a breeding rain chamber for my packman frog.
    out of a 50 gall long plexi I have in storage.
    and I will use a PVC pipe to make a the rain chamber portion.


    Quote Originally Posted by mpmistr View Post
    I've considered tightening the shut off valve a bit to restrict water flow from the spray bar but I worry about having something bad happen and my living room going underwater.

  16. #15
    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Sorry RockyGurly
    for hijacking the thread,

    I do have one thing to offer related to the thread some what.
    What substrate are you planning to have.

    With that in mind. I would plant this idea.
    either white or black smooth sand.
    So if the frog does eat some it can easily pass it.
    Also with gravel food can get stuck in-between the gravel and if the gravel is smaller than the frogs mouth it might
    swallow some and that can be dangerous.

    Also sand IMO is a better substrate since it has more surface area for the beneficial bacteria to grow on.
    and I think it looks better.

    just make sure when you place the intake of your new filter that is doesn't come too close to the
    sand. Sand will destroy pump impellers and bearings in short order.

    BTW welcome to the forum.

  17. #16
    RockyGurly
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    I don't understand what useful purpose the daily water changes serve if the frog isn't producing any waste. If you get a filter please bear in mind that these frogs, unlike many fish, do not inhabit, and have not evolved to exist in, fast flowing waters so it's important not to subject it to a constant whirlpool.
    One of the reasons I was so worried is I really don't think he was that healthy, the boy had him in a filthy (and I mean filthy) tank with no filter and he said he gave him a few fish once or twice a month. Along with the silly gravel and sharp toys, a rough car ride and a bunch of other things that sent up red flags for me.
    I'm learning, but bear with me :P I'm completely new to all of this, I've never even had an aquatic set up before. So with the water, I was just trying to keep it clean until I got a filter (which I'll be picking up this afternoon) since the water seemed a bit cloudy. I really do appreciate the advice but there'll probably be some bumps along the way. But I'll cut down on the water changes if that's too much.
    Sorry RockyGurly
    for hijacking the thread,

    I do have one thing to offer related to the thread some what.
    What substrate are you planning to have.

    With that in mind. I would plant this idea.
    either white or black smooth sand.
    So if the frog does eat some it can easily pass it.
    Also with gravel food can get stuck in-between the gravel and if the gravel is smaller than the frogs mouth it might
    swallow some and that can be dangerous.

    Also sand IMO is a better substrate since it has more surface area for the beneficial bacteria to grow on.
    and I think it looks better.

    just make sure when you place the intake of your new filter that is doesn't come too close to the
    sand. Sand will destroy pump impellers and bearings in short order.

    BTW welcome to the forum.
    No prob 8) and thanks!
    He currently doesn't have any substrate, but the gravel came from his old setup. But I'm planning on adding a couple inches of clean playsand, since I have it on hand for my other critters. I also just ordered some amazon swords, duckweed, (real) moss balls and anubias, so I'm hoping to have a planted tank going soon (right now he just has the silk plant)


    ...7. I cleaned everything with hot tap water and then rinsed it in dechlor, he has a corner gutter PVC pipe, a rock cave, a couple rock decor pieces and a large silk plant
    Make sure decor has no sharp edges and that frog can't get stuck in anything.

    13. I had one smallish poop that still had some coloured gravel in it, but so far no new poops
    If gravel in poop it's good frog is passing it. Stuck gravel in digestive system (impaction) could make it sick and cause death.

    18. Reptomin is mainly being offered, but I tried a live earthworm and some frozen bloodworms
    Glad it ate earthworm! Those are very nutritious. Good luck getting it to accept Reptomin.

    21. So far none, but I plan on 10% water changes every week or two, and regular spot cleaning for old food and poops
    I'll try the garlic thing, that's ok for them? Weird! :P

    Would recommend 25% water change a week; specially now that you do not have a filter. Might not see much poop, but frog is peeing urea and in an uncycled tank (more below) the Ammonia and Nitrite levels must be high.

    Garlic works as a taste enhancement in fish and frogs. If garlic oils are fresh, it's also a natural way to prevent some parasites.



    I answered some relevant questions above. A new tank set-up will cycle itself in around 30 days. Not sure how that number is affected when a filter is absent. Beneficial bacteria needs a surface to live on and not having a filter; will only exist on tank walls, decor, and gravel. During the stabilization period the Ammonia will peak and then go down and then Nitrites will peak. Then both Ammonia and Nitrite will reach zero and your tank is cycled.

    Your frog will be exposed to those bad chemicals; so observe it daily and note any changes in eating, swimming or pooping behavior. Here is link to article discussing several ACF diseases to give you idea what to look for: African Clawed Frog Disease and Injury. Do not over react, these frogs are pretty tough.

    During this time you can do normal weekly water changes. Do not wash gravel or decor in tap water; that will kill the good bacteria. Also, recommend not using ammonia removing media or liquids because they will sequester too much Ammonia from tank and will start a yo-yo effect that will make the process much longer. Good luck !
    Thank you! He just has the round edged PVC pipes and the rock things are fairly smooth too, so I think he'll be ok.
    While I wish I could of set it up and done the whole cycling thing ahead of time, I only had one day of notice before I got him >.< so I'm just trying to play catch up. I'll keep what you said in mind I have a XL garden box on my porch with lots of worms living in it (I bought them four years ago when I got it set up) and it's totally fertilizer/pesticide free so that's where I've been getting his worms from

  18. #17
    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Don't worry,
    You are doing ten times better than the last owner.

    While the tank cycles just do really small water changes like around a gallon. every other day
    to make sure the ammonia and nitrate ect ect doesn't get too high.
    and doing that small of a water change wont interrupt the cycle too much.

    (I think I said this before just don't know if it was this tread or not LOL getting senile. )

  19. #18
    RockyGurly
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    Hi all! Just thought I'd give you a happy update
    I may or may not be taking him with me, I'm not sure, I've gotten pretty attached. If I do, I have elaborate plans with a cooler so he can be comfortable for the long car ride.
    He's taking pellets! So far he's taken a few tweezer fed ones that have been softened up a bit, and he seems to struggle a bit to choke it down but he manages (I've been cutting them in half to help) he still loves the occasional worm.
    The filters been doing it's thing for the past week and I've been doing one gallon water changes every day or so. I've got some sand being cleaned and just about ready to go in, and my live plants should be here in a few days I also have the plant liquid fertilizer and I got him some more pipes to hide in (he loves the corner one)
    In the summer when I move to vernon, I'll probably upgrade him to a 40 breeder if I can get my hands on one, and I'm sure I'll be able to find him a full sized companion (it's a pretty big city compared to here, so unfortunately there are a lot of homeless herps. I've already touched base with a few rescue homes and the local SPCA and I'll be taking in some new adoptees if any show up, or at least to hang onto until we can find homes, stoked!)
    Thanks everyone 8) He's been very active and looks much healthier, he climbs the filter, still croaks all hours of the day, likes to squish himself into his little cave and he's super friendly, not shy at all. If I'm working near the tank or come by to feed him, he'll swim over to see what's going on, I've even taken to giving his back a little finger rub if he's hanging out near the surface, he doesn't seem to mind as long as he gets a chunk of worm.
    Once the tank is planted and looking better, I'll make a huge post in introductions with pictures of him, as well as my gecko and 29 hermit crabs and isopods and various other critters 8)

  20. #19
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    I hope you can take frog. If the cooler has been in contact with soap or detergents; can line the inside with a large fish bag or even a plastic trash bag.

    You can also plastic bag the filter medium and sand. Some bacteria will die but ones that survive will start-up bio-filter faster than new media. Not sure if available there; but Kordon makes O2 permeable bags for shipping fish that might be suitable to pack the bio-media for trip: Breathing Bags | Kordon. Hope this helps a bit and will wait for pics .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  21. #20
    RockyGurly
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    Default Re: New ACF not eating

    I'll definitely be keeping him I'm already making plans for his upgrade as well as adopting a couple friends for him. Thanks for the advice! I was planning on using a large plastic bag and sticking that in the cooler, just to keep him cool (I don't think the lid would hold that well) I'll keep the filter media thing in mind as well
    He's doing great now! Thanks everyone He's set up in his planted tank with substrate, and he's eating like a little piggy! I have really high hopes for this little guy, and I'll be working with the SPCA fostering and adopting herps so I'll be able to get him a few friends
    (Oh! And some pics: http://www.frogforum.net/aquatic-cla...frog-tank.html
    I'll be adding more as I take more )

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