Frozen silversides?

[Bodeman]

I heard that frozen silversides can make decent treats for frogs, but that they have a vitamin deficiency (thiamin?) and that they should be dusted with multivitamin powder before feeding. Can anyone say anything about this? If ok how often can I feed these things? I want to be sure before I try something new. And if not ok, I'll forget it all together.

[demon amphibians]

we are speaking the fish right?

[Bodeman]

we are speaking the fish right?

Yes. I think you can get them at petstores as food for both marine and freshwater fish.

[demon amphibians]

Then yes they will be an excellent food for your frog. If they are a feeder for fish then you can assume that they are free of toxins unlike other species. More research and other opinions would be a good idea. I would supplement with a calcium vitamin blend, Zoo med has great products. You could even staple on these. Whoever i would recommend diversity when it comes to food. Fish can be the best food for frogs depending on the species.

[Herpguy]

Why would you need calcium supplementation when feeding fish with bones?

[demon amphibians]

Fish bones do provide calcium, but not as much as you would think, The powder i recomened has more then just calcium it is a vitamin blend. If you are stapling one item or even feeding 5 different things it is still a good idea to supplement. And powder is your only option with frozen foods.

[Herpguy]

You should never need calcium or vitamins if you are feeding your frogs a proper diet.

[demon amphibians]

You are right, but it is almost impossible to do so. Frogs in the wild do not need supplements because they eat hundreds of difference types of food that have a large arya of nutrition. We cant do that in captivity. some of us are lucky to be able to feed 3 types of food. So supplements are a high recommendation whether you gut load or dust. Now gut loading doesnt have to be a brand name product either. If you feed your crickets lettuce and oranges they will be able to provide a sufficent source of calcium.

[Herpguy]

It is really too easy to feed roaches many many different kinds of foods that pass on complete nutrition for your frogs. Just like in human supplementation, vitamins and nutrients are nigh on useless if they aren't coming from an actual food. I am against supplements, and I have never had an issue with MBD or growth.

[GrifTheGreat]

In truth both of you are correct, but in the wild there are nutritional elements that we cannot provide even with a varied diet and supplements. It doesn't hurt to dust the fish for added calcium and vitamin content. Fish contain thiaminase which causes a Vitamin B1 deficiency in frogs so it is actually beneficial to dust a feeder fish with a multivitamin to counteract the thiaminase.

It is also recommended to dust the rump of pinky mice when offering them to your frogs for added calcium content that the pinky is lacking due to undeveloped bones.

Even so it is best to add a little variety whenever possible for the frog's benefit. Gutloading can work great if using a good formula to do so and can even provide all the supplements that the frog needs if done correctly, but it never hurts to provide a little extra nutrition.

[Herpguy]

The thiaminase issue is something that has never been proven, only speculated. I have never seen nor heard of a frog that actually had a B1 deficiency.
I think that the problem lies in people feeding store bought foods. I think everybody should at least breed some species of roach, as that way you can feed them whatever your animals need. Powdered milk is a perfect source of of calcium for feeder insects. I know exactly what my animals are eating, as my feeders eat better than me.

[GrifTheGreat]

The thiaminase issue is something that has never been proven, only speculated. I have never seen nor heard of a frog that actually had a B1 deficiency.
I think that the problem lies in people feeding store bought foods. I think everybody should at least breed some species of roach, as that way you can feed them whatever your animals need. Powdered milk is a perfect source of of calcium for feeder insects. I know exactly what my animals are eating, as my feeders eat better than me.

Indeed and its cost efficient. I have a dubia colony. Pacman frogs don't care much for them, but the Pyxi loves them. I always offer variety mostly in the form of treats. Hornworms being one of the most used treats and they really like the way they thrash around.

[Herpguy]

If your horned frogs don't like dubia, I would recommend you try some different species. There are many out there and certain ones work better for certain species. Dubia are really one of the worse feeders in the roach world, as far as attracting animals.

[GrifTheGreat]

If your horned frogs don't like dubia, I would recommend you try some different species. There are many out there and certain ones work better for certain species. Dubia are really one of the worse feeders in the roach world, as far as attracting animals.

Its the legs. All spikes. They like how they move, but dont care for the legs. I'm going to breed a bunch of different feeders soon. Especially worms since my frogs main diet consists of Night Crawlers. I need some African Crawlers too.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I seem to remember reading that another member that has made little "sausages" from small natural casings
made from all kinds of organ meats (cooked) the gamut of vitamin supplements combined with dog food ground up.
and frozen for perserving and warming up to slightly above room temp and tong feeding adult pyxi's and african bull frogs.

with great results.

Something I am considering since my wife can't handle feeding live food.

[demon amphibians]

The thiaminase issue is something that has never been proven, only speculated. I have never seen nor heard of a frog that actually had a B1 deficiency.
I think that the problem lies in people feeding store bought foods. I think everybody should at least breed some species of roach, as that way you can feed them whatever your animals need. Powdered milk is a perfect source of of calcium for feeder insects. I know exactly what my animals are eating, as my feeders eat better than me.

Romain lettuce and oranges combined contain more calcium than milk. what you said about supplements is very true they can cause vitamin deficiency which is why you must be careful and do research on the products you are using. I also agree that roaches do provide excellent nutrition. I have been stapling all my frogs on them for over a year. my colony is HUGE I will start selling soon. Also feeding your roaches powdered milk is a no go. Milk is known to cause cause calcium deficiency in humans. who knows if this will happen with frogs too. But none the less you dont wanna feed milk products to your roaches because they contain to much of protein. It will slow breeding and can be fatal to your roaches. I have a recent thread on here that goes into detail on that if you are interested.

[Herpguy]

That milk causing calcium deficiency intrigues me, I have to do more research on that. Nonetheless, I do not grind my food up like many people do, I let my roaches pick what they need.
Anyways, I know for a fact that higher protein amounts do not slow production, they actually increase them. I need to dig up the study that I read on that recently. I do not give my roaches a high protein diet however, as it's not protein that frogs need, it's the vitamins from the fruits and veggies that they obviously do not hunt.

[GrifTheGreat]

That milk causing calcium deficiency intrigues me, I have to do more research on that. Nonetheless, I do not grind my food up like many people do, I let my roaches pick what they need.
Anyways, I know for a fact that higher protein amounts do not slow production, they actually increase them. I need to dig up the study that I read on that recently. I do not give my roaches a high protein diet however, as it's not protein that frogs need, it's the vitamins from the fruits and veggies that they obviously do not hunt.

Too much fat and protein can cause cornial lipidosis which can lead to blindness.

[SCF]

Too much fat and protein can cause cornial lipidosis which can lead to blindness.

Just imagine if this were true for humans. Americans especially.

[Herpguy]

Diabetes