New Pacman Owners- help please!!

[ljt22]

Hi all,

My Partner bought 2 Pacman frogs today- a green and brown/black fantasy frog, and an albino horned frog. We have decided to call them Ronnie and Reggie (after The Kray's ).

We bought them from a very reputable breeder and dealer, and so we are positive that they are healthy and have been looked after properly. We are also sure that we have been given the best advice on how to look after them. We fed them both 2 locust when we got them home, but stupidly forgot to ask when they were last fed so have decided to not give them any more until late tonight.

However, the fantasy frog seems very stressed- jumping around, trying to climb up out of the faunarium, banging his head on the sides of his enclosure, kicking his legs around in a strange way. Obviously realise he has only moved today and had a half hour car journey, which would stress out any animal. He started getting stressed when we took them (in their separate boxes) to the garden to very quickly show the girl I live with. We then brought them to my bedroom, and he has only calmed down and sat still for a maximum of 20 minutes so far. When we moved them into the faunariums, he got very defensive and went for my hand several times while I was moving some bedding around that had been in the box he came in. He wasn't interested in feeding off tweezers (which we have been recommended to do for now) but happily ate when the locust were loose in the faunarium.

Just wondering what more I can do to settle him down? I want to make sure he is happy and stress free as quickly as possible, but it has now been 4 or 5 hours and he's only been calm for a maximum of 20 minutes. I know it's probably just a case of letting him settle and keeping everything quiet for a while, but I have very limited experience with reptiles and amphibians (just plenty of experience with mammals!!) and my partner is out until later (who owns a few venomous and constrictor snakes, and also a few other weird and wonderful reptiles/ amphibians).

Any help and advice is appreciated, even if it is just telling me to get a grip and leave him be

Pictures attached- Reggie is the green and black/brown, Ronnie is the albino

[GrifTheGreat]

Hi there! Welcome to the Forum! This is a great place to learn more about frogs.

First off, please read these links:
Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding
http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

It is very common for horned frogs to get stressed out when moving to a new home. They will often not eat for a couple days after moving. So the fact that both of yours ate is very good! Your little one is just a little stressed from all the change and excitement. The best thing to do now is leave him/her alone tonight and offer food again tomorrow. In the meantime, if the sides of the enclosure are open you should cover three sides with some sort of background.This greatly helps to reduce stress.

A couple other notes:
If you are going to be feeding in the enclosure, you should remove the moss. It can cause impaction (severe constipation) if swallowed. Coco fiber is the best substrate to use. Make sure you are de-chlorinating any tap water (including what you use to expand the substrate).

It also looks like little Reggie is a Cranwelli not a Fantasy (Cranwelli X Cornuta). They both look very healthy and cute though! Please keep us posted on how they are doing. Any questions, just ask!

[GrifTheGreat]

One more thing, it is pretty hard to over feed these guys! They will usually stop eating when they are full. A good general rule is to offer as much food as they will eat in 15 minutes. Try nightcrawlers; they are a very good staple diet. You can just cut off an appropriately sized chunk to feed. Do you have calcium with D3 and multivitamins for them?

[ljt22]

Hi! Thank you for your reply and advice!! I have to admit that I know absolutely nothing about looking after frogs. Luckily got my partner who knows plenty about amphibians and reptiles, but these are my first so just want everything to go as smooth as possible and hope I can ensure I look after them as best as possible.

We bought calcium with D3 from the breeder we got them from, but didn't put any on the first 2 locust that we fed them due to my partner being in a bit of a rush to get out and me not having a clue how to put it on the locust. We were told to either use a glass jar or a plastic bag, but I would definitely feel more comfortable having my partner here to help (and catch any locust if they make a break for freedom, as 1 already has!!).

Were told Reggie was a fantasy, but obviously if he isn't we would still be very happy with him- he's a live wire but very welcome edition to the family. He seems to have settled down now and I haven't heard a peep out of him for about 30 minutes. We have them both in separate faunariums but next to each other (as they're having to share a large heat mat until we find 1 the right size) but we have put some paper down the middle as we thought this might be stressing Reggie out a bit. I will find something to cover the other sides for now and then we can buy some background for them both tomorrow.

We had wondered about the moss in there, and only put it in for now as it was in the box they came in. Underneath we have a soil based substrate (says spider substrate but were told it can be used for these guys too). Is that ok or should we switch to the Coco fiber (or are these the same thing)?

They are both also on a desk which is about 3ft from a window. This is only temporary until my partner sorts out some adequate space for them both in his reptile room. I have the window open slightly just now as it gets very hot due to being in direct sunlight (although the frogs are not in direct sunlight and are in a shaded area). Will this be ok for a few days? Should I have the window closed or open? Also, how often should I spray them? Their bedding is damp, but not soaking, and they have plenty of water in their bowls. Just want to make sure they stay hydrated at all times.

I will read those links you had posted and hopefully that will answer any more daft questions I have! Thanks again =)

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! Need to read the article Collen/Jerrod linked about Pacman care ASAP, and answer the questions on the second link: Trouble in Enclosure as completly as possible. Only then will we be able to correct any deficiencies before they become a health problem.

When you transfer a frog it should be placed in enclosure (preferably a quarantine set-up) and left alone and undisturbed for at least a couple days so it settles down. Showing to neighbors, feeding, handling, etc. will just add more stress to frog until it freaks out like your's did.

Any animal that eats in that condition is going to have digestions issues that could become problems later. There are important parameters in the enclosure that could affect your frogs health, among them: humidity, heat, substrate, food, and water. As soon as you provide answer to those questions we will be able to point out any issues and offer reccomendations. Thank you !

[ljt22]

Hi Carlos, I will answer the questions as best as possible. You may have to forgive me if I don't know the answer to a few things. As I have previously mentioned, I am a newbie to this stuff and my partner is still out.

He has settled down extremely well now and has burrowed very deep, so we are hopeful that he wasn't disturbed too much. Although it was only for a few minutes that he was shown to my house mate, we realise this wasn't the best thing to do but knew it would prevent her coming in and disturbing him/ being noisy when it really came to settling in time. He definitely seems to have settled now it has got darker, so I'm very reluctant to putting the light on (we will be sitting in the dark and saving a fortune on electricity and light bulbs for a while lol). He was quarantined at the breeder/ dealer we bought him from and was quarantined like this for a number of weeks, checked over by their own in house vet and is completely free from any diseases/ illnesses.

1. 12x7 5x8 (Medium exo terra standard faunarium)
2. 1 in each
3. Roughly 60%
4. 24 degrees now
5. Water from the tap with drops added to remove chlorine
6. Spider substrate (like a soil with very small twigs and other small pieces in it), covered with moss on top (put this in to make it a bit more home-like as it was in the both they came in)
7. Only substrate and moss just now, as they will both be moved to a more permenant home in a few days when space is sorted for them there. Water bowl at cold end of the faunarium, and heat matt underneath faunarium at other end
8. Locust so far and 'lob worms' (says on top of box of them). Partner and breeder/ dealer suggested pinkies once in a blue moon as a treat
9. Bought calcium+D3 earlier but not used yet. Have been advised to use this 2-3 times a week
10. Natural lighting (as advised)
11. Heat matt
12. About 5-6 hours ago
13. When transferring them from their quarantine boxes to faunariums
14. Pictures in first post but can include bigger ones of enclosure if needed
15. Believed to be about 4 months old
16. About 7 hours
17. Both captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats (think I already answered this 1? Feel free to correct if wrong though)
19. Planning to only handle when cleaning out or in case of veterinary treatment. Other than that, we never plan to handle either of them
20. Low
21. Will do a full clean out once a week, but small clean out when necessary. Water changed daily.

[Mentat]

Glad the frog has calmed down a bit. One thing don't now is your frogs length from snout to vent. Only problem with plastic enclosures is the heating & humidity issues. Can cover around 50-75% of vents with saran wrap taped to edges to try and keep some heat and humidity in faunariums. You want humidity between 75-80%. Spraying enclosure at least 2X a day should help.

Temperature should be 80-85F per day and 75-80F at night. Your temp (around 75F) is low and could cause frogs health issues in the long run. Also, must keep enclosure away from drafts. Heat mats are very inefficient when attached to enclosure side. Also, some can damage the critter plastic. Frogs burrow to escape heat; because of that mats should not be positioned below substrate. Using lights to heat those plastic keepers can be challenging too.
Proper substrate is shredded coco fiber (Plantation Soil, EcoEarth or similar). Sphagnum is an impaction hazard and should be removed. If spider substrate has twigs large enough to cause impaction; recommend replace soonest.

Crickets and night crawlers are good staple food. Do not need to feed mice! Dust CA x 2 and multivitamins x 1 times a week on different days. Alternate dustings with a day in between. When frogs become full grown can reduce the dusting quantity in 1/2.

Indirect natural lighting in fine, but avoid direct sunlight, since it can raise faunarium temps above recommended levels. Also, bright light can damage your albino's frog eyes and skin.

I would seriously consider getting feces samples from both frogs and having them tested by veterinary for parasites. Hope this helps a bit, good luck !

[DVirginiana]

I noticed you said you were planning to do a full clean-out once a week. As long as you spot clean and change the water every day, you only need to do a full clean-out of the tank about once every 3-4 weeks.

I'd remove the twiggy substrate and replace it with coco-fiber. Even if the twigs are small, they could injure the frog's throat or stomach if they are swallowed. They are pretty violent eaters, so if it can be swallowed it eventually will be.

lol, the good thing about pacs and quarantining is that they live alone. The only real quarantining necessary is to make sure you don't use the same tongs or equipment for another animal until the pac's 'quarantine' period is up.