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Thread: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

  1. #1
    WideEyed
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    Default Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    I'd just like to say before i get into this post that i'm new to this hobby,and although ive read a Bunch of information i still feel a little confused.I've had my pacman frog only since Sunday ( April 21st ). the first day of having her i threw in a cricket but it kept running away from her, so i had picked it up and placed it about an inch in front of her and she finally ate it.after she ate that one i offered a couple more and she just didnt seem interested, so i removed them from her terrarium.since then i've offered her crickets daily, but she hasnt gone for them. i've also offered cut up pieces of night crawlers,and Nothing >__<.
    I've read it can take a little while before a pacman frog feels comfortable enough to start eating in its new enviorment, but this is honestly starting to worry me.
    she hasnt had Anything to eat in 2 days ( today will be day three, but i dont offer her food until about 4-5 pm eastern time),so i guess my main question is,

    When should i REALLY start worrying that shes not eating??
    and also, Are there any methods of trying to get them to eat that i should know about?

    i've tried feeding With tongs and sort of touching the crickets/night crawlers to her lips, waving them near her face, and just leaving them infront of her, but im getting No luck.

    I'm taking a trip to a local pets store after work to get crickets for my fire bellied toads,

    Should i try getting other types of food to offer my pacman? or should I stay consistant with offering crickets/night crawlers?



    i know pacmans can eat waxworms/pinkie mice/goldfish/horned worms , but im Really trying to get her on a steady and Healthy staple diet.

    i appreciate any help/feedback,i really want to keep her happy!(and Healthy!)

    Thanks

    -Jerry

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  3. #2
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Hi Jerry! What size is your Pacman? Can you describe the enclosure a bit (can use this for guidance: Trouble in Frog Enclosure)? It's better to first set them up in a quarantine set-up until eating and fecal test comes negative for parasites.

    It's normal for a stressed frog to not eat for a couple days after a transfer, but if enclosure parameters are OK and frog is healthy it should start eating soon. If crickets are getting away, try removing the rear legs. Red wriggler worms are smaller than night crawlers and movement might entice it to eat, just drop them in front of mouth and within reach. Also, avoid handling frog to reduce stress, good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  4. #3
    WideEyed
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    hey Carlos, my Pacman is about 2 inches long, possibly 2 1/2 inches..and hmm im going to ask my local pet stores if they have red wigglers, never heard of 'em

    1. Size of enclosure? its a 20 gallon Long with a tank divider in the middle ( it has a screen top at the moment, which i know is Horrible for humidity levels, but i have saran wrap taped on a section of the top part of the enclosure to trap what humidity i can....i also plan on getting a glass canopy top as soon as possible)

    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences? only the 1 pacman

    3. Humidity? unfortunatly i dont have a hygrometer yet >_<( will be getting one ASAP!) , so im not positive on that, but i do spray her terrarium down about 5 times a day

    4. Temperature? about 72 degrees

    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish? i've been using distilled water for both misting and soaking dish, but just recently read that distilled water isnt good for soaking, so i'll be switching to dechlorinated tap water for that

    6. Materials used for substrate? sphagnum peat moss with 'terrarium moss' as a top layer substrate to help trap some humidity..although i sectioned out a part where it is only the peat moss so she can burrow as needed

    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv?
    just an in-ground 'jacuzzi water dish' so far, which i cleaned with hot water and let it air dry before introducing it to the terrarium..i also plan on getting a few live plants

    8. Main food source? i was told by the pet store owner i got her from that she was fed crickets and goldfish.but since i've had her i've been trying to get her on a staple diet of crickets and night crawlers..i dont want to try feeding goldfish because i dont want to risk her getting any parasites


    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often?) havent used any calcium supplements yet

    10. Lighting? just the lighting from my ceiling fan (which is pretty bright)..and she gets a Tiny bit of sunlight on the right side of her terrarium every once in a while depending on the day( its not a lot at all, just a little beam here or there)

    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure? nothing in particular at the moment >.<

    12. When is the last time he/she ate? i seen her eat one cricket only on sunday

    13. Have you found poop lately? i found poop in her water dish on monday ( the day after i got her)

    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) Name:  pacman enclosure.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  162.6 KB im at work so the is the best picture i have at the moment of the frog/enclosure

    15. How old is the frog? about 4 months old or so

    16. How long have you owned him/her? only since sunday

    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred? i believe she is a captive bred

    18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats? been offering crickets/ sliced night crawlers daily

    19. How often the frog is handled? so far,never

    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area? very low traffic area ,she's in my room and im basically the only person to go in there

    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) i clean her water dish daily, and i havent had her long enough to do a tank cleaning

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Read this! Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding

    You haven't researched enough if you have no heat source for your frog. Also your tank is too large even divided.

    These frogs need temps that are 80 to 83 during the day and 76 to 79 at night, but hover around 78 at night. You must have a hygrometer so you know how humid the enclosure is. They need 70% to 80% humidity.

    What size are the crickets?

    Read the link I posted and any indepth questions feel free to ask.


  6. #5
    WideEyed
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    what size tank should i have her in? i read they need a minimum of 10 gallon tank, so i figured dividing the tank wouldve been fine >.<

    im going to do whatever i can to try to get the money for the hygrometer/UTH for her Today

    can i achieve the 70%-80% humidity level with a screen top? or will i Need to get a glass lid for the top?

    and the crickets i've been offering are medium sized since thats the size i get for my fire bellied toads, should i be getting large for the pacman though?

    thanks in advance for your help, i really dont want to mistreat my pacman.

    also, i'm reading the link you shared right now, thank you

  7. #6
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Quote Originally Posted by WideEyed View Post
    hey Carlos, my Pacman is about 2 inches long, possibly 2 1/2 inches..and hmm im going to ask my local pet stores if they have red wigglers, never heard of 'em
    At that size your frog can handle at least 1/2 night crawler (cut from pointy end and feed that, worm front end will heal). Fresita is same size and takes whole ones.

    1. Size of enclosure? its a 20 gallon Long with a tank divider in the middle ( it has a screen top at the moment, which i know is Horrible for humidity levels, but i have saran wrap taped on a section of the top part of the enclosure to trap what humidity i can....i also plan on getting a glass canopy top as soon as possible)
    You can cover most of it (try 75& to begin with) with saran wrap taped to edges. Do keep saran from heat sources (lights) 1/2 in. away.

    3. Humidity? unfortunatly i dont have a hygrometer yet >_<( will be getting one ASAP!) , so im not positive on that, but i do spray her terrarium down about 5 times a day
    Get hygrometer! Even the cheap ones at Petco will get you in the ballpark. When in store look at all of them and reject any that deviates from median (pick one from those that match each other). Try and keep humidity between 75-80%.

    4. Temperature? about 72 degrees

    Too cold! Should be around 80-85 F for day and 75-80 F at night. A dome with red bulb (can be kept on 24 hr.) or ceramic heat unit can help you warm enclosure. Will need to test different wattage until you get it right (talk to shop nicely and they should let you trade them). Another option is a higher watt bulb (do not exceed fixture max limit) with a manual (rheostat) or auto (thermostat) controller. Just lay dome on top of screen and keep away from saran by 1/2 in. Pacman's kept in cold enclosures can develop internal organ damage and edema.

    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish? i've been using distilled water for both misting and soaking dish, but just recently read that distilled water isnt good for soaking, so i'll be switching to dechlorinated tap water for that
    You need to switch ASAP! Either use dechlorinated water or bottled "Spring" water. You can use the distilled water for misting only.

    6. Materials used for substrate? sphagnum peat moss with 'terrarium moss' as a top layer substrate to help trap some humidity..although i sectioned out a part where it is only the peat moss so she can burrow as needed
    Proper substrate is shredded coco fiber (Plantation Soil, Eco Earth, or similar). Sphagnum is an impaction hazard, please get that out!

    8. Main food source? i was told by the pet store owner i got her from that she was fed crickets and goldfish.but since i've had her i've been trying to get her on a staple diet of crickets and night crawlers..i dont want to try feeding goldfish because i dont want to risk her getting any parasites
    No goldfish.. ever! Crickets and night crawlers are fine.

    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often?) havent used any calcium supplements yet
    Get both CA and multivitamins ASAP. I use Repashy products but there are other brands. Dust crickets (or worms) with CA 2X and multivitamins 1X per week on different days and skipping a day between dustings. Once frog is grown you can reduce (dusting quantity) in half.

    10. Lighting? just the lighting from my ceiling fan (which is pretty bright)..and she gets a Tiny bit of sunlight on the right side of her terrarium every once in a while depending on the day( its not a lot at all, just a little beam here or there)
    See number 4.

    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure? nothing in particular at the moment >.<
    See number 4.

    12. When is the last time he/she ate? i seen her eat one cricket only on sunday
    Frog is stressed by cool temps, low humidity, and distilled water. Correct those and it should eat.

    13. Have you found poop lately? i found poop in her water dish on monday ( the day after i got her)
    Once you correct enclosure deficiencies can get a feces sample to vet for parasite test.

    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) i clean her water dish daily, and i havent had her long enough to do a tank cleaning
    Need to correct substrate issue per number 6.
    Also, please read this and good luck: Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  8. #7
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Quote Originally Posted by WideEyed View Post
    what size tank should i have her in? i read they need a minimum of 10 gallon tank, so i figured dividing the tank wouldve been fine >.<

    im going to do whatever i can to try to get the money for the hygrometer/UTH for her Today

    can i achieve the 70%-80% humidity level with a screen top? or will i Need to get a glass lid for the top?

    and the crickets i've been offering are medium sized since thats the size i get for my fire bellied toads, should i be getting large for the pacman though?

    thanks in advance for your help, i really dont want to mistreat my pacman.

    also, i'm reading the link you shared right now, thank you
    If you can't get another enclosure have 2 options. Get a smaller keeper like ExoTerra's medium breeder box and keep in there inside the 20L. That way you can control temp. & humidity and as frog outgrows breeder box can release into tank. Other is to divide 20L tank and give her like a 1/4 area to start with. Frog just needs space to borrow and bath. Problem with larger enclosure is one of feeding for a predator that waits for meals.

    Keep the screen top and seal it with saran wrap as per previous post. Once you get your humidity controlled can replace saran with clear polycarbonate sheet.

    Get large crickets and gut load with Repashy's Bug Burger and carrots .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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  10. #8
    WideEyed
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    i feel TERRIBLE right now for how wrong i have everything set up -__________-.i have barely any money at the moment to fix everything, but my buddy is going to let me borrow 2 under tank heaters that im going to put on the sides so hopefully warm her tank up until i can afford a ceramic heater, and i definitely got the money for the hygrometer.and i'll be adding more saran wrap than what i had on there to trap the humidity. the only thing is i dont think i can afford the coco fiber substrate for a lil while >_______<..im going to do the best that i can to fix my mistakes today. i'll keep you guys updated,thanks for all the info. my pacman (and I) really appreciate it.

  11. #9
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Quote Originally Posted by WideEyed View Post
    i feel TERRIBLE right now for how wrong i have everything set up -__________-.i have barely any money at the moment to fix everything, but my buddy is going to let me borrow 2 under tank heaters that im going to put on the sides so hopefully warm her tank up until i can afford a ceramic heater, and i definitely got the money for the hygrometer.and i'll be adding more saran wrap than what i had on there to trap the humidity. the only thing is i dont think i can afford the coco fiber substrate for a lil while >_______<..im going to do the best that i can to fix my mistakes today. i'll keep you guys updated,thanks for all the info. my pacman (and I) really appreciate it.
    If the Peat moss is the finely ground kind it will suffice until you get the Coco fiber. The Sphagnum may have to go since you are feeding in the enclosure. Covering the top with saran wrap will help hold heat and humidity in once you have the UTHs.

    Try not to beat yourself up to much. Many people make mistakes just learn from them and correct them. Once the frog's conditions are right it should begin to feed and act normally.

    Carlos has you covered for the rest. Always research as much as you can before purchasing a frog. This is very important.

    Do keep us posted.


  12. #10
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Quote Originally Posted by WideEyed View Post
    i feel TERRIBLE right now for how wrong i have everything set up -__________-.i have barely any money at the moment to fix everything, but my buddy is going to let me borrow 2 under tank heaters that im going to put on the sides so hopefully warm her tank up until i can afford a ceramic heater, and i definitely got the money for the hygrometer.and i'll be adding more saran wrap than what i had on there to trap the humidity. the only thing is i dont think i can afford the coco fiber substrate for a lil while >_______<..im going to do the best that i can to fix my mistakes today. i'll keep you guys updated,thanks for all the info. my pacman (and I) really appreciate it.
    No problem WE; you have my respect for your interest in taking action to fix things up. As Colleen/Jerrod stated, we all make mistakes and the thing to do is to learn and not repeat them.

    OK, since we are a bit strapped for cash this is gauge I mentioned in previous post: Petco Reptile Habitat Humidity Gauge at PETCO. Remember to look at all gauges and grab one from the group that matches each other best avoiding the ones that differ. If you need thermometer they sell a package with both for a bit more. You want to position the gauge couple in. above substrate in area where you will set up the frog. Clean glass a bit with distilled water and wipe dry before sticking gauge on.

    How are you dividing tank? If divider goes all the way to top; would recommend sectioning around 1/4 of corner for frog and stick those two heat mats to side and back. Do monitor temp for a few hours in the rare case it is too much (mat's are no very efficient). Let us know where you are temp. wise after setting that up and we will figure out something for next step.

    Once you are ready to get a light fixture need to decide if going with a bulb or ceramic heat emitter. I once kept an African Bullfrog in a 20H and used a ZooMed 100W emitter in a Fluker's 8.5 in. dome with dimmer. That was enough to raise tank temp. 8-10 degrees F. with dimmer at 80%. Yes, manufacturers do not recommend using emitters with domes (they recommend the wire type fixtures) but I never had a problem with it and think it will be fine as long as you do not exceed the dome max. wattage. There are also nicer looking (and probably costlier) light fixtures than domes and offer a bit more flexibility (20 gal. ZooMed's have 2 bulbs with independent control. Of those canopy types prefer ZooMeds because can handle 60W bulbs while ExoTerra tops at 25W.

    OK, finally lets talk substrate. I do prefer the ease of loose bags of Plantation Soil or Eco Earth; but it's cheaper to get the compressed blocks. If doing so; stay with ZooMed's Plantation Soil. It mixes better (use dechlorinated water) and it's very clean medium. I've found wire rope pieces, bark, plastic, you name it in EcoEarth blocks and it does not crumble as easy as Plantation Soil. Once mixed you can separate portion you will use and add more water until it forms clumps in fist but with no dripping.
    Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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  14. #11
    WideEyed
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    hey guys! so i know that its not good at All for a staple diet, but i decided to buy some superworms to see if maybe they would entice her to start eating.. and she ate 5 of them .. in between superworms i offered bits of night crawler, and even though it was wiggling around in her face she didnt go for them yet..and same with the crickets >.< ( i even took off there back legs so they couldnt jump away,but she didnt go for them) but i shall be consistant of offering them to her

    But back to the set up of her terrarium!

    so it took me a little while, but i fixed (hopefully)everything i was slacking on, i hope i did a good enough job because i did not see Carlos' latest reply until after a couple trips to the pet store and finishing working at the tank.. i bought a hygrometer/ thermometor package and placed them about 2 inches above the substrate.. i took out All the shagnum peat moss and replaced it with Eco Earth compressed blocks of the coco fiber( which feels a lot softer/more comfortable than the peat moss too!).. i now have her soaking dish filled with bottled Spring water..also, i didnt have enough money for a ceramic heat emitter so my buddy let me borrow a UTH pad which i had stuck on the back side closest to where she hangs out,and i also bought another UTH just incase the one itself wasnt enough to heat the tank...i also used a bit more saran wrap and covered about 3/4ths of the top..as of now the temperature is reading 80 degrees F and the humidity is reading 90%...anything im missing??

  15. #12
    WideEyed
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Name:  IMG_153 2.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  95.2 KB also, heres a better picture of her terrarium, if you look close enough you can see her burrowed in the back right xD :Ecitement:

    i may not be able to get on here until tomorrow morning, so i apologize in advance for a late reply


    -Jerry

  16. #13
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    Good that frog ate a bit and you got temps and humidity to more acceptable levels . Next thing is to get at least the Calcium supplement and dust crickets/worms with it twice a week. It is important right now because your frog is growing and needs lots of CA for healthy bones and other body processes. Maybe the shop you buy frog and all your stuff might help by giving you a bit of CA supplement to get you started until you can buy CA and vitamins (recommend Repashy or Rep Cal). Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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  18. #14
    WideEyed
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    Default Re: Eating Concern :PLEASE help

    i'll get the CA supplement asap, thanks Carlos

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