Please help my Pacman

[TheDude]

Hi, I just puchased my first pacman frog a month and a half ago after wanting one for years. At first everything was great he was eating anything I threw in there (dusted crickets,mealworms, wax worms, night crawlers) and moved around about twice a day he was about the size of a quater he had gotten up to about 2 3/4 inches in about a month then he just stopped eating altogether. I then did some reserach and found he was at around 65-70 degrees so I got a temp gauge and a heat lamp with an amphibian bulb and now keep the tank around 80 in the day and 70 at night, humidity is 60-80 based on misting which is done about 4 times a day. I have had him at the higher temps for about a week now and still no progress and the frog is losing size. 2 days ago he took what I would say was a big poop for his size (bigger than a pinky) but still has not eaten since. The frog seems to be more active at night time I have noticed and dropped a pinky in there for him and some crickets so he could hunt at night but he just moves around the tank and in the morning I find him in whatever spot he is hiding for those few days. Sometimes he burrows but usually not and the crickets and pinky just walk all over him - literally. I have watched a cricket sit in front of him for a half hour and he still will not eat. I tried cleaning the Terarruim and changing it around a little to see if that stimulated him but it did not. I have noticed at times he looks waxy but he does seem alert however he has lost a lot of weight and I am concerned Petco maybe sold me a sick frog. The frog is now about 2 inches long and 1 3/4 wide. I have only used the coconut stuff as hs substrate and it is about 3-4 inches deep. I will attach a photo of him in his enviroment, any help would be great as I hope he does not die.

[Mentat]

Hi, I just puchased my first pacman frog a month and a half ago after wanting one for years. At first everything was great he was eating anything I threw in there (dusted crickets,mealworms, wax worms, night crawlers) and moved around about twice a day he was about the size of a quater he had gotten up to about 2 3/4 inches in about a month then he just stopped eating altogether. I then did some reserach and found he was at around 65-70 degrees so I got a temp gauge and a heat lamp with an amphibian bulb and now keep the tank around 80 in the day and 70 at night, humidity is 60-80 based on misting which is done about 4 times a day. I have had him at the higher temps for about a week now and still no progress and the frog is losing size. 2 days ago he took what I would say was a big poop for his size (bigger than a pinky) but still has not eaten since....

Hello and welcome to FF. Once a frog stops eating and defecating it's harder to get it back into healthy status; but will try to give you some ideas. First please read this: Pacman Horned Frogs Care. Second, please cover 3 sides of enclosure with background or any paper you like to reduce frog's stress levels. Third you must ensure the enclosure maintains the temperature and humidity range your frog requires. Maybe it's the light, but from the picture, that substrate looks dry to me. One trick to maintain humidity is to cover 1/2 of top venting with either saran wrap taped to edges or a custom cut piece of clear polycarbonate sheet. Also, do not leave crickets, mice, or any prey in cage overnight while frog is not eating in hopes that it will grab something. Last, would consider moving your frog to a hospital type set-up with just moist white paper towel on bottom (4-6 layers) and sides (1 layer) that you will change daily, water dish, and a hide-out.

If you have a local veterinary with frog or exotics experience that would be the way to go. If not; and without results from a fecal exam it becomes guesswork. Look at this list and try to answer all the questions for us to try and narrow down what's wrong: Trouble in Frog Enclosure. Need to know important details like if you are using de-chlorinated water for bath or not?

You did mention the frog was exposed to cool temperatures for around a month and that now is "losing size." Could there be possibility frog exhibited swelling caused by water edema (fluid retention starts as jelly like areas near hips)? It happens to Pacman's and some other tropical frogs when exposed to long term cool temperatures. The problem is a result of frog's kidney's and lymph hearts (a pump organ that moves lymph in frogs lymph circulatory system) damage. Correcting the conditions (warming up enclosure) will usually help; but the damage to a young frog internal organs is permanent and even when frogs recover from edema, they have much shortened life spans.

Hope your frog get's better and will wait for your answers to try and narrow down what could be wrong. Good luck !

[JeffreH]

Best of luck to you TheDude - I knew you'd get a faster response here ; )

Just to add - you can search for qualified reptile and amphibian (herp) vets in your area using the following website: Herp Vet Connection .

[TheDude]

Thanks guys.


The substrate is definatly wet. I will try to get the 3 sides of the tank covered as this makes sense he is in my bedroom and a lot goes on so I could see that being an issue.

"You did mention the frog was exposed to cool temperatures for around a month and that now is "losing size." Could there be possibility frog exhibited swelling caused by water edema (fluid retention starts as jelly like areas near hips)?"

Now that you mention this I think it to be very possible when he was fat at his hips it did seem to be jelliesh and somewhat yellowish/transparent I thought maybe I fed him to much and he was swelling out. Is that what it would have looked like?

I forgot to mention he nips at food like it is bothering him and sometimes he pushes it away or he back up a bit like he has no interest. I will stop leaving his food in the tank overnight as well. But I must admit the water edema is bothering me because my wife is a royal pain in the *** with keeping the window open at night because she gets hot when we sleep and I know the temps have gotten very cold possibly into the upper 50's. I no longer see any indicators of this but clearly remember the yellowish jelly lookat the rear edges of his belly.

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks guys.


The substrate is definatly wet. I will try to get the 3 sides of the tank covered as this makes sense he is in my bedroom and a lot goes on so I could see that being an issue.

"You did mention the frog was exposed to cool temperatures for around a month and that now is "losing size." Could there be possibility frog exhibited swelling caused by water edema (fluid retention starts as jelly like areas near hips)?"

Now that you mention this I think it to be very possible when he was fat at his hips it did seem to be jelliesh and somewhat yellowish/transparent I thought maybe I fed him to much and he was swelling out. Is that what it would have looked like?

I forgot to mention he nips at food like it is bothering him and sometimes he pushes it away or he back up a bit like he has no interest. I will stop leaving his food in the tank overnight as well. But I must admit the water edema is bothering me because my wife is a royal pain in the *** with keeping the window open at night because she gets hot when we sleep and I know the temps have gotten very cold possibly into the upper 50's. I no longer see any indicators of this but clearly remember the yellowish jelly lookat the rear edges of his belly.

Your frog must be kept away from drafts of any kind especially cold air coming in a window and AC vents. Raise the night time temp to 78°F. Keep him at 80° during the day. If you need to move the frog's tank to a room where there aren't any open windows then do so. Cold temps will stress the frog and it will become ill.

If you're having trouble with crickets then try Night Crawlers. Just cut off an appropriate sized piece from the worm starting at the tail. Set the chunk of worm infront of the frog about 1" away and leave it be. Come back after a couple minutes and see if the worm chunk is gone. You can also try Waxworms.

Edema can also be caused by over dusting their food with Calcium.

[Mentat]

...Now that you mention this I think it to be very possible when he was fat at his hips it did seem to be jelliesh and somewhat yellowish/transparent I thought maybe I fed him to much and he was swelling out. Is that what it would have looked like?... But I must admit the water edema is bothering me because my wife is a royal pain in the *** with keeping the window open at night because she gets hot when we sleep and I know the temps have gotten very cold possibly into the upper 50's. I no longer see any indicators of this but clearly remember the yellowish jelly lookat the rear edges of his belly.

Yep, edema looks just like that! Upper 50's F is way too cold for these frogs. Agree with Colleen/Jerrod to move enclosure away from draft and out of the cold room into a warmer house area.

[TheDude]

FFFFFFF mother FER - I knew she did it


this pacman frog conditons now are as if he stayed at the trump plaza but I know it is to late he is not improving and it has been a week I think maybe I will bring him back to petco were he may recieve help and try with a new frog under these newer conditions I can not afford a vet bill right now they rape you because they know they have you by the nuts 3k+ on my dog.


I am going to move him to the hallway, I have tried nightcrawlers cut and in whole he wont touch them so far. I will raise his night temps even though he seems more active then. I doubt it was over dusting he ate those crickets hours after they were in the cage couldnt see much of anything on them.

I hope he comes around I really like having him


new conditions
His temp stays 75-85
humidity 70-80+
same terraruim

I hope this is not the dudes last post

[GrifTheGreat]

FFFFFFF mother FER - I knew she did it


this pacman frog conditons now are as if he stayed at the trump plaza but I know it is to late he is not improving and it has been a week I think maybe I will bring him back to petco were he may recieve help and try with a new frog under these newer conditions I can not afford a vet bill right now they rape you because they know they have you by the nuts 3k+ on my dog.


I am going to move him to the hallway, I have tried nightcrawlers cut and in whole he wont touch them so far. I will raise his night temps even though he seems more active then. I doubt it was over dusting he ate those crickets hours after they were in the cage couldnt see much of anything on them.

I hope he comes around I really like having him


new conditions
His temp stays 75-85
humidity 70-80+
same terraruim

I hope this is not the dudes last post

He doesn't look like he has edema to me. I'm guessing that he is just stressed out. Cover the sides of the tank and keep him warm. Keep him ats 80° at night if possible too. For now I would go out and buy some Honey and Unflavored Pedialyte. I want you to make a mixture of 80° dechlorinated tap water, honey, and unflavored Pedialyte.

Prepare as follows. Make a bath no deeper than up to the frog's chin of 80° dechlorinated tap water. For every 10 ounces of water add 1 ounce of Unflavored Pedialyte then add 4 drops of honey. Since the frog is stressed just pour some of the bath in his water dish then place the frog in thedish and leave him be for 20 minutes. After that time passes. Replace the medicated bath with just 80° dechlorinated water and place him back in the dish. Leave him be for 15 minutes then offer food, but remove the hind legs from the crickets before placing them in so they cannot jump. This makes them easy prey. Let him be for about 30 minutes and come back and see if he has eaten. Count the crickets before offwrin them of course. I'd only place 3-5 in. If he has not eaten after 30 minutes take the crickets out and just let him be.

[TheDude]

I always take the hind legs off the crickets as cruel as it seems and its a pain.... I will get the honey and ruglar pedailite tomorrow as my wife has me tending to the kids at the moment. I put books around his terraium to try and keep him calm meanwhile and I took all potential food out of the way maybe this will help. I have tried the warm baths on th frog in a small holder tank in a dark place so far and he would not eat but no honey or pedialite. I just added the water dish and he does not seem to care for it...... however i will do as directed.

[TheDude]

just as a note the cricket in the pic was there for at leat 20 minutes without being eaten and is still alive today he shows no interest in food.................. if it matters

[GrifTheGreat]

just as a note the cricket in the pic was there for at leat 20 minutes without being eaten and is still alive today he shows no interest in food.................. if it matters

He may be weak. The bath should provide some energy, electrolytes, and nutrients

You may want to purchase some Fluker's Repta Boost too. Just incase you have to force feed him to regain his strength.

[TheDude]

So I took yesterday off and soaked the frog in a honey bath then regular warm water then pediolite bath the regular bath and wrapped his tank in a plain wrap for fish tanks and left him in there in the water with some honey in it he got out in about 2 minutes and settled in a corner. This morning before I left for work I put 5 crickets in there and now 10 hours later the crickets are all still there it would seem this did not help The Dude. I do not think the frog is weak in the water he was moving around a bit and at night he moves around. I just put him in a small pet animal carry completly wrapped in moist warm paper towels and left a night crawler in there with him it is just him and the worm nice warm and moist all walls are whited out so he can not see outside hopefully this may help him focus on eating as there is nothing else.

[TheDude]

all water has been poland springs bottled water


this sat will be 3 weeks without food for him - I am not sure what to do and dont want to force feed and cant spend a lot at the vet.

[GrifTheGreat]

So I took yesterday off and soaked the frog in a honey bath then regular warm water then pediolite bath the regular bath and wrapped his tank in a plain wrap for fish tanks and left him in there in the water with some honey in it he got out in about 2 minutes and settled in a corner. This morning before I left for work I put 5 crickets in there and now 10 hours later the crickets are all still there it would seem this did not help The Dude. I do not think the frog is weak in the water he was moving around a bit and at night he moves around. I just put him in a small pet animal carry completly wrapped in moist warm paper towels and left a night crawler in there with him it is just him and the worm nice warm and moist all walls are whited out so he can not see outside hopefully this may help him focus on eating as there is nothing else.

It may take a little longer. Don't give up.

[GrifTheGreat]

all water has been poland springs bottled water


this sat will be 3 weeks without food for him - I am not sure what to do and dont want to force feed and cant spend a lot at the vet.

If you aren't up to force feeding which is something that may come up again if you get another frog then maybe they are not for you. I'm not saying that it is absolutely going to happen, but there is always a possibility that a frog will become ill and necessary steps must be taken. The same goes for any pet you may aquire. Don't take this the wrong way. This is FACT.

Frogs are delecate creatures when it comes to their environment. Something that seems minor can be devastating to a frog.

The choice is yours. There is a chance he could die either way. Pet stores aren't always so willing to take a sick animal to a vet, but some will.

Do what you must. It is good that you are at least trying.

[TheDude]

I dont want to force feed him because I dont want to hurt him, I dont want to traumatize him and I dont want to do it for years because thats like being on life support no way to live he should be able to eat on his own if not there is a problem not being adressed.

[TheDude]

he never ate the worm

[GrifTheGreat]

I dont want to force feed him because I dont want to hurt him, I dont want to traumatize him and I dont want to do it for years because thats like being on life support no way to live he should be able to eat on his own if not there is a problem not being adressed.

The problem is that it was kept in a cold climate for far to long. The risks of force feeding do not surpass the death from starvation. Since these creatures are designed to go for extended periods without food then starvation takes weeks unlike us which die in about a week.

Sadly I cannot make you do what is necessary to save its life or at least give it a chance to recover. I can only advise you to. Most of the time they will begin to eat on their own once again when their strength returns. Force feeding isn't as bad as you might think as long as you're careful.

I can explain how to do so if you like.

[TheDude]

still in the same boat with the frog, I am thinking of removing the water dish he never uses it and the crickets keep drowning in it.


If he does not eat by tomorrow I will force feed him a half a night crawler I think........................ I have seen a few you tube videos on force feeding but will listen to any input.

[GrifTheGreat]

still in the same boat with the frog, I am thinking of removing the water dish he never uses it and the crickets keep drowning in it.


If he does not eat by tomorrow I will force feed him a half a night crawler I think........................ I have seen a few you tube videos on force feeding but will listen to any input.

Use a plastic spoon upsidedown to open the frog's mouth. It is safer and much easier. Start at the side of the mouth placing the spoon between the upper and lower jaw. Position the spoon inbetween the hinge of the jaw and snout so in the center of whatever side of the mouth you choose. Gently slide down towards the snout applying gentle downward pressure. The frog should open its mouth and you shoukd have the food item ready to go into the frogs mouth. Once the item is in the frog should do the rest.

This is best performed with two people. One to hold the frog and the other to perform the force feeding. This is also best done in an area very low to the ground so there is minimal chance for injury.

Any further assistence feel free to ask.