Problems with my western toads.. Chytrid suspected (pics)

[toadman]

Hello guys... So, I think my western toads 'may' have the chytrid fungus. I have 2 mature males, I caught them from the wild a week ago and kept them in a 20 gallon tank, in it was some nice fluffy dirt I gathered from the forest (pete moss-like substrate), some green moss, some bark, a big knarled tree root for them to sit under and a water bowl about a toad and a half in length that I re-filled twice a day (and I fed them lots of earthworms, common black beatles and grass spiders everyday). Then I noticed that the second one, which is the green one, had extra waxy skin (and had literally no color) and was always puffed up. So I thought, by experience, that he was about to shed his skin. I waited 2 days to see him shed, but he did not. I became agitated and worried something was wrong. So I started to read about chytrid, and as you could imagine, I was very stressed when I read that it causes discoloration, which was the problem with my toad. So since there was no way I could get some lamisil spray (because I'm in canada you need a prescription and my vet can't do anything), I put the toads in a ten gallon tank filled quarter of the way with 33.C waited for 10 minutes (they were completely unharmed, and actually seemed to like it, as they kept trying to mate with each other lol) just to see what would happen. Then bits of the second toads skin started coming off, but I noticed their skin color really brightened up.

But yeah, just thought I'd ask for some opinions here. The only symptoms are the discoloration and, I don't know if its just my worrying but there seems to be a very slight orange-ish redness coloration near the butt of the toads. Though they sit on their bellies with no irritation. Thank you for your time and any feedback would be much appreciated.

P.S. that stuff that's on them is chamomile that I put in their water bowl. It kills fungus so I thought why not. And also I guess I ought'a mention that I'm a newb here but not so much when it comes to caring for amphibians

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I am no expert but if it was Chytrid I think they would be shedding
a lot.

And the warm water bath would loosen up dried skin and that maybe the
reason some of it was coming off.

I would just keep feeding as normal and minimizing handling.
also if you have any other amphibians to make sure you don't
cross contaminate with hands or any other items.

[Namio]

Your toads do not appear to have chytridiomycosis, but I can't tell if they are infected by chytrid from the pictures that you provided. It is always a good idea to quarantine and monitor wild-caught or captive-bred amphibians in separate tanks in the beginning (probably for at least one month) just in case one infected animal does not infect the other. Louis is right on about excessive sloughing in an infected animal. Lack of appetite and lethargy are also good indicator of presence of chytridiomycosis.

[Mentat]

Diagnosing Chytrid based on skin discoloration is akin to guessing. Chytridiomycosis signs include neurological problems (abnormal behavior, posture, etc.) and rough or sloughing skin. Most of the time proper diagnosis requires veterinary analysis.

Your frogs are probably stressed out due to captivity and that is causing the discoloration and what could probably be the early stages of "Red Leg." Just in case, you might want to be prepared for that, by reading this: How to Care for a Sick Frog with Red Leg Disease: 8 Steps . Good luck !

[toadman]

Diagnosing Chytrid based on skin discoloration is akin to guessing. Chytridiomycosis signs include neurological problems (abnormal behavior, posture, etc.) and rough or sloughing skin. Most of the time proper diagnosis requires veterinary analysis.

Your frogs are probably stressed out due to captivity and that is causing the discoloration and what could probably be the early stages of "Red Leg." Just in case, you might want to be prepared for that, by reading this: How to Care for a Sick Frog with Red Leg Disease: 8 Steps . Good luck !

That would be strange if they had red leg because I housed them good, fed them and made sure the tank was clean of any fecies and all that. Plus they didn't seem to be so stressed. But if it is red leg, which it probably is (if anything) now that you mentioned it, do you think if I released them they would lose it? since stress is a cause for it.. I'm just thinking out loud here (I've never dealt with nor read much about red leg so I'm uneducated on the subject.) And also, he had the discoloration when I caught him. But I know sometimes a toad (or any amphibian) can be found dead due to chytrid and yet have no signs of it, so this is just mysterious to me. I guess only time will tell now.. And thank you.

Your toads do not appear to have chytridiomycosis, but I can't tell if they are infected by chytrid from the pictures that you provided. It is always a good idea to quarantine and monitor wild-caught or captive-bred amphibians in separate tanks in the beginning (probably for at least one month) just in case one infected animal does not infect the other. Louis is right on about excessive sloughing in an infected animal. Lack of appetite and lethargy are also good indicator of presence of chytridiomycosis.

I will follow that advice for now on, and you can count on that! Thanks

[Namio]

Western toad, like pretty much all amphibians, is able to change color, so the discoloration may just be one of those color changing phases.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

After reading the above posts.
I will agree that your toads are ok and just stressed a bit and just need to be handled
very sparingly.

I would only feed every other day until they get settled in their new home.

I can't stress enough on limiting handling as mush as possible.

That is the #2 highest stressful thing to a new frog.
#1 being a wild caught frog getting use to captivity.

Good luck!

[Mentat]

That would be strange if they had red leg because I housed them good, fed them and made sure the tank was clean of any fecies and all that. Plus they didn't seem to be so stressed. But if it is red leg, which it probably is (if anything) now that you mentioned it, do you think if I released them they would lose it? since stress is a cause for it.. I'm just thinking out loud here (I've never dealt with nor read much about red leg so I'm uneducated on the subject.) And also, he had the discoloration when I caught him. But I know sometimes a toad (or any amphibian) can be found dead due to chytrid and yet have no signs of it, so this is just mysterious to me. I guess only time will tell now.. And thank you....

Chytrid is challenging to identify (usually requires tissue analisys) and even when some frogs have developed immunity to it, they remain carriers.

Only gave you a "heads-up" about Red Leg so you would read information and be prepared just in case. A wild caught animal is very stressed initially and some adapt... but some don't. No idea if releasing a frog with Red Leg would cure it. Once symptoms start, the frog actually has a bacterial infection. Imagine if disease stage is advanced and with no meds; the frog won't recover and die even if released.

[Namio]

Chytrid is challenging to identify (usually requires tissue analisys) and even when some frogs have developed immunity to it

Actually Carlos, no frog species known to date is immune to chytridiomycosis. There are several frog species that are highly resistant to chytrid infection but no amphibian is actually immune to it.

[Mentat]

Actually Carlos, no frog species known to date is immune to chytridiomycosis. There are several frog species that are highly resistant to chytrid infection but no amphibian is actually immune to it.

Thank you! My sentence should read then "Chytrid is challenging to identify (usually requires tissue analisys) and even when some frogs have developed resistance to it, they remain carriers."

[toadman]

Thank you very much for your guys' advice, I guess the only thing I can do now is just wait and see

[demon amphibians]

when it comes to wild caught toads and frogs, they have a very high chance of having red leg. Their immune system may keep it at bay and be unnoticeable but when introduced to stress it lowers the toads immune system and the red leg symptoms will set in. From what i can see it does not seem like red leg but i have never seen it in that particular species so I cant tell. Usually it starts with red and brownish spots on the under side of the frog or toad then its coloration will turn pale. shortly after it will become lethargic and wont eat. that is when the legs will start to turn blood red but usually when your frogs legs start turning red it will be fatal within a day or two. also with my encounters of red leg my frogs did not shed there skin. They lost all there slime and started to dry out even when soaking in water. with toads this will be a symptom you may never see. The coloration of your toads underside looks normal to me however i am not a vet and i am not inclined to make such judgements. But what i do know for a fact that the signs of red leg on the underside are very unique.

[CJ PELCHER]

I just lost a frog due to red leg... demon is completely right. THEY WILL NOT SHED when they have chytrid fungus. Mine took about 9 days to pass on and i brought mine to vet to try FORTEX an antibiotic which had no effect what so ever... Then tried a saltwater bath but it was too late in the stage for that to change. As of now to my knowledge there is NO SOLID CURE for this disease.

[demon amphibians]

I just lost a frog due to red leg... demon is completely right. THEY WILL NOT SHED when they have chytrid fungus. Mine took about 9 days to pass on and i brought mine to vet to try FORTEX an antibiotic which had no effect what so ever... Then tried a saltwater bath but it was too late in the stage for that to change. As of now to my knowledge there is NO SOLID CURE for this disease.

Sorry to hear about dixie. It is very frustrating being helpless to do anything when it comes to red leg. There are many ways to prolong life but it always ends the same way.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

There is a Documentary called The Thin Green Line that has a lot of info on how the Chytrid fungus has effected the frog population of the world and how some are trying to fight it.
Video: Frogs: The Thin Green Line | Watch Nature Online | PBS Video

[demon amphibians]

that was very moving! very very good.. lets put the severity of this into perspective so some may better understand the impact of this Chytrid Fungus. If there were a disease out there similar to Chyrtid that infected humans. It would be a plague of biblical proportions. imagine an infection that could do this to us. This would exceed the impact of the black plague, so to speak in those times of course, which killed almost 50 percent of the worlds population. Chytrid which as wiped out 60 percent of the worlds population of frogs (if i read it right/ kinda hard to believe). of course we cant compare a humans immune system with a frogs. But none the less that is how serious Chytrid is to the frogs of the world. And it is something that must not be ignored.

[demon amphibians]

when a frog has this they die a very painful terrifying death. I cant even imagine something like that killing me. I can give descriptive details of frogs i caught from the wild die from this. Although I wish not to elaborate via thread but if anyone wants to know what happens i will tell you through PM. not sure if you really want details whoever.

[Namio]

[QUOTE=CJ PELCHER;176106THEY WILL NOT SHED when they have chytrid fungus.[/QUOTE]
Excessive sloughing is one of the symptoms of chytridiomycosis due to the nature of hyperkeratosis that the amphibian HAS to slough of skin to stay alive. On the other hand, if they don't shed it is likely that the disease isn't caused by chytrid.

[CJ PELCHER]

mine had the bursting blood vessels on the belly... the "TELL TALE SIGN OF chytrid"

[Mentat]

...P.S. that stuff that's on them is chamomile that I put in their water bowl. It kills fungus so I thought why not. And also I guess I ought'a mention that I'm a newb here but not so much when it comes to caring for amphibians

Hello Eli! How are your toads doing? Just read through your initial post again and the last sentence drew my attention. The reddened area is on toad's belly which is what sits on the chamomile water. Could you please tell us how are you using this chamomille (fresh, tea bags, timed soaks, always in water, etc.). Thank you !