Problems with my western toads.. Chytrid suspected (pics)

[toadman]

Hello guys... So, I think my western toads 'may' have the chytrid fungus. I have 2 mature males, I caught them from the wild a week ago and kept them in a 20 gallon tank, in it was some nice fluffy dirt I gathered from the forest (pete moss-like substrate), some green moss, some bark, a big knarled tree root for them to sit under and a water bowl about a toad and a half in length that I re-filled twice a day (and I fed them lots of earthworms, common black beatles and grass spiders everyday). Then I noticed that the second one, which is the green one, had extra waxy skin (and had literally no color) and was always puffed up. So I thought, by experience, that he was about to shed his skin. I waited 2 days to see him shed, but he did not. I became agitated and worried something was wrong. So I started to read about chytrid, and as you could imagine, I was very stressed when I read that it causes discoloration, which was the problem with my toad. So since there was no way I could get some lamisil spray (because I'm in canada you need a prescription and my vet can't do anything), I put the toads in a ten gallon tank filled quarter of the way with 33.C waited for 10 minutes (they were completely unharmed, and actually seemed to like it, as they kept trying to mate with each other lol) just to see what would happen. Then bits of the second toads skin started coming off, but I noticed their skin color really brightened up.

But yeah, just thought I'd ask for some opinions here. The only symptoms are the discoloration and, I don't know if its just my worrying but there seems to be a very slight orange-ish redness coloration near the butt of the toads. Though they sit on their bellies with no irritation. Thank you for your time and any feedback would be much appreciated.

P.S. that stuff that's on them is chamomile that I put in their water bowl. It kills fungus so I thought why not. And also I guess I ought'a mention that I'm a newb here but not so much when it comes to caring for amphibians

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I am no expert but if it was Chytrid I think they would be shedding
a lot.

And the warm water bath would loosen up dried skin and that maybe the
reason some of it was coming off.

I would just keep feeding as normal and minimizing handling.
also if you have any other amphibians to make sure you don't
cross contaminate with hands or any other items.

[Namio]

Your toads do not appear to have chytridiomycosis, but I can't tell if they are infected by chytrid from the pictures that you provided. It is always a good idea to quarantine and monitor wild-caught or captive-bred amphibians in separate tanks in the beginning (probably for at least one month) just in case one infected animal does not infect the other. Louis is right on about excessive sloughing in an infected animal. Lack of appetite and lethargy are also good indicator of presence of chytridiomycosis.

[Mentat]

Diagnosing Chytrid based on skin discoloration is akin to guessing. Chytridiomycosis signs include neurological problems (abnormal behavior, posture, etc.) and rough or sloughing skin. Most of the time proper diagnosis requires veterinary analysis.

Your frogs are probably stressed out due to captivity and that is causing the discoloration and what could probably be the early stages of "Red Leg." Just in case, you might want to be prepared for that, by reading this: How to Care for a Sick Frog with Red Leg Disease: 8 Steps . Good luck !

[toadman]

Diagnosing Chytrid based on skin discoloration is akin to guessing. Chytridiomycosis signs include neurological problems (abnormal behavior, posture, etc.) and rough or sloughing skin. Most of the time proper diagnosis requires veterinary analysis.

Your frogs are probably stressed out due to captivity and that is causing the discoloration and what could probably be the early stages of "Red Leg." Just in case, you might want to be prepared for that, by reading this: How to Care for a Sick Frog with Red Leg Disease: 8 Steps . Good luck !

That would be strange if they had red leg because I housed them good, fed them and made sure the tank was clean of any fecies and all that. Plus they didn't seem to be so stressed. But if it is red leg, which it probably is (if anything) now that you mentioned it, do you think if I released them they would lose it? since stress is a cause for it.. I'm just thinking out loud here (I've never dealt with nor read much about red leg so I'm uneducated on the subject.) And also, he had the discoloration when I caught him. But I know sometimes a toad (or any amphibian) can be found dead due to chytrid and yet have no signs of it, so this is just mysterious to me. I guess only time will tell now.. And thank you.

Your toads do not appear to have chytridiomycosis, but I can't tell if they are infected by chytrid from the pictures that you provided. It is always a good idea to quarantine and monitor wild-caught or captive-bred amphibians in separate tanks in the beginning (probably for at least one month) just in case one infected animal does not infect the other. Louis is right on about excessive sloughing in an infected animal. Lack of appetite and lethargy are also good indicator of presence of chytridiomycosis.

I will follow that advice for now on, and you can count on that! Thanks

[Namio]

Western toad, like pretty much all amphibians, is able to change color, so the discoloration may just be one of those color changing phases.

[Mentat]

That would be strange if they had red leg because I housed them good, fed them and made sure the tank was clean of any fecies and all that. Plus they didn't seem to be so stressed. But if it is red leg, which it probably is (if anything) now that you mentioned it, do you think if I released them they would lose it? since stress is a cause for it.. I'm just thinking out loud here (I've never dealt with nor read much about red leg so I'm uneducated on the subject.) And also, he had the discoloration when I caught him. But I know sometimes a toad (or any amphibian) can be found dead due to chytrid and yet have no signs of it, so this is just mysterious to me. I guess only time will tell now.. And thank you....

Chytrid is challenging to identify (usually requires tissue analisys) and even when some frogs have developed immunity to it, they remain carriers.

Only gave you a "heads-up" about Red Leg so you would read information and be prepared just in case. A wild caught animal is very stressed initially and some adapt... but some don't. No idea if releasing a frog with Red Leg would cure it. Once symptoms start, the frog actually has a bacterial infection. Imagine if disease stage is advanced and with no meds; the frog won't recover and die even if released.

[Mentat]

...P.S. that stuff that's on them is chamomile that I put in their water bowl. It kills fungus so I thought why not. And also I guess I ought'a mention that I'm a newb here but not so much when it comes to caring for amphibians

Hello Eli! How are your toads doing? Just read through your initial post again and the last sentence drew my attention. The reddened area is on toad's belly which is what sits on the chamomile water. Could you please tell us how are you using this chamomille (fresh, tea bags, timed soaks, always in water, etc.). Thank you !

[toadman]

Hello Eli! How are your toads doing? Just read through your initial post again and the last sentence drew my attention. The reddened area is on toad's belly which is what sits on the chamomile water. Could you please tell us how are you using this chamomille (fresh, tea bags, timed soaks, always in water, etc.). Thank you !

Heya Carlos, I picked up some dried/fresh chamomile from my moms, and put about 1 cup or so in a fairly large pot filled one quarter of the way with water and (as you could guess) made tea then set it out to cool down and steep. I soaked them in some of the tea in a bin for a few minutes. And in the quarantine tank I just sprinkled some of the crushed flowers (and put a little bit of the tea in their bowl).

Oh and three days ago, the first toad (I actually named him Carlos, after the author Carlos Castaneda lol) shed' his skin just like any ole' normal toad would. And the second one seems completely fine now. He's got his color back and both of their redness is gone. If this was just nothing but my worrying, then I'm sorry and will make sure to not post a thread unless it seems more serious (it must get old for you guys. All those pages of "my frog's sick")

Sorry I couldn't get back sooner. Thanks.

[CJ PELCHER]

Everyone wants to help =) no worries

[Mentat]

Heya Carlos, I picked up some dried/fresh chamomile from my moms, and put about 1 cup or so in a fairly large pot filled one quarter of the way with water and (as you could guess) made tea then set it out to cool down and steep. I soaked them in some of the tea in a bin for a few minutes. And in the quarantine tank I just sprinkled some of the crushed flowers (and put a little bit of the tea in their bowl).
OK, just remember to use dechlorinated water for your home made brew.

Oh and three days ago, the first toad (I actually named him Carlos, after the author Carlos Castaneda lol) shed' his skin just like any ole' normal toad would. And the second one seems completely fine now. He's got his color back and both of their redness is gone. If this was just nothing but my worrying, then I'm sorry and will make sure to not post a thread unless it seems more serious (it must get old for you guys. All those pages of "my frog's sick")
Think name is cool and doubt Castaneda will complain about it .

Sorry I couldn't get back sooner. Thanks.

We much rather get you ready, and even argument about treatment, than being contacted too late to save a frog. Give a hug to Carlos from me and good luck to you and the toads !

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Haven't heard for you in a while, how are the toads?

[toadman]

Haven't heard for you in a while, how are the toads?

The toads have made a full recovery, their skin is back to normal and the redness is 100% gone, so I would say their as good as a toad gets!
I would post some pictures but I released them 4 days ago, (while the mating season is still on) back where I found them, back where they belong!
Sorry for not putting any consideration in updating the thread for so long. This time of year is just the most, well, exiting time of year for me, I'm mostly out on the countryside exploring, all day every day till dark. Also, after this whole thing, I've made sure to clean my gear after a day in the field.

I think I'm just gonna stick to raising baby toads and tadpoles for now on.

Also, I've collected some western toad eggs about 1 and a half weeks ago. It's a shame I haven't been photographing the process up until now, but I think I will start today and post a little thread with pics (and with a real camera this time)