Starting my very first Dart frog tank.

[chellabella]

Hello everyone. So this has been a long time coming and I am beyond excited. I have always wanted to build a vivarium for dart frogs and my opportunity is finally here. I have now bought all my supplies and so now I am at that point of nervousness to actually begin. My tank is 30" L, 12" w and 18" tall. I will be building the background out of foam and right now that is the biggest thing that is making me nervous.. I would love some impute on the best way to go about doing this part. Is it hard to control? Does it stay where you want it to go? (I am using gaps and cracks by the way) Will it at all stick to the glass or will it be easy to remove to put the substrate all over it?

Well I will start with that for now. I am sure I will have lots more questions along the way however..

Thanks for everyone's help,
Rachelle

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF Rachelle ! If you go through this section thread list, will find a few topics with build type discussions. Have not used that product before; but would make sure it has no toxic compounds in it. I have used one meant for outdoor ponds before: GREAT STUFF. Similar products are available in garden, pond, or even in hardware stores: Home Depot & Lowes. Good luck !

[chellabella]

The gaps and cracks stuff is something suggested off of this forum actually. I have been reading on here a lot and have read some things on here about using foam but still feeling nervous for some reason.

[chellabella]

the gaps and cracks is the type by the way, it is made by Great Stuff.

[deranged chipmunk]

the gaps and cracks will work well. i actually prefer the new foam by ge. i find that it cures with smaller air bubbes, but c&g will suffice. as far as control, there is very little. it will expand as it wants to. and the c&g will expand more than the others. get yourself a few cheap, dollar store steak knives for carving, they work well. although i prefer a combo of steak knives and various exacto knives and wood rasps.

[DartEd]

I would recommend rubbing a thn layer on the glass before applying the GS. Let the silicone cure, then apply the GS foam. GS wasn't intended for bonding to glass so it can separate without the silicone. Lay the tank with the background facing up. Spray a bit of foam at a time until you get the feel for it. If you want to layer the foam up, let it cure for a day and then add more or it takes FOREVER to cure or it will fall over becoming frustrating. The spray foam is fun to work with.

Let the foam cure. The foam expands a lot and then shrinks a bit. That's why I silicone first. When it shrinks, it stays attached to the glass.

Once the foam has completely cured( about 36-48 hrs), carve it to your liking and sand it down to eliminate the tiny cracks and crevicesformed by spraying it in. The foam dries smooth making silicone a bit tough to spread. If you rough up the smooth spots with sand paper, the silicone holds better and is easier to apply.

Apply the silicone in small sections. I recommend mentally sectioning off the tank into thirds. Silicone, coco or peat. Silicone then coco or peat. Until everything is covered. If you can, use brown or black silicone. This way if you miss a spot, no big deal, it's brown.

SUPER IMPORTANT

WEAR GLOVES AND SKIN PROTECTION.
great stuff is not great on skin. It does NOT come off skin except for peeling off while taking skin with it.

Good luck, take pictures and let us know how you're doing.

[chellabella]

so if I want to be able to take it out to put on the coco I would want to not put the silicone down first right? I was thinking originally that I would use the foam, then let it cure and then remove the foam piece to cover it with the coco before then using the silicone to stick it to the back of the tank. is one way going to be easier or will the be about the same?

[deranged chipmunk]

if you want to be able to remove it, the foam a piece of egg crate the appropriate size and do the work out of the enclosure, then silicone the eggcrate in. be cautious though, this procedure is a painstaking process. since it will take quite a but of trimming and tweaking. you could always just use some pink construction insulation foam, carve it out and then silicone it in. once cured to the glass, the great stuff will not come out in one piece.

another option for covering the foam is my favorite the titebond II method. instead of silicone, you use titebond iii wood glue. it stinks less, is water proof and you can re-apply it to cover any bare spots. something you cannot do with silicone.

[DartEd]

Silicone is definitely tougher to work with. I've never worked with titebond but lots of people love working with it. As Bill said, the foam will not be removable once to spray it in. You can use styrofoam like he suggested. Most craft stores sell it and its pretty cheap and much more forgiving than GS is. Then you can seal and cover your background outside of the tank like you wanted. An advantage of the styrofoam is that you can carve crevices and glue pieces to create ledges.

[chellabella]

Okay so I have decided to just go with the great stuff and silicone that I have already purchased. I am okay with not being able to remove it once sprayed, I just thought it was how everyone was doing. Once I start foaming is there anyway to be able to you use the can the next day so that I can add more foam? I have heard once you start a can you can't really use it a second time, is that true?

[DartEd]

Okay so I have decided to just go with the great stuff and silicone that I have already purchased. I am okay with not being able to remove it once sprayed, I just thought it was how everyone was doing. Once I start foaming is there anyway to be able to you use the can the next day so that I can add more foam? I have heard once you start a can you can't really use it a second time, is that true?

Usually the foam clogs the tubing. I soaked the tubing in warm water and was able to use a fairly new can a week later. I should tell you that they don't usually work after a couple of days. I think my good fortune was due to the can being nearly unused. I only sprayed it to fill in a few holes on another build.

I would ensure that you have plenty of time to build when you start spraying. To build up, the foam doesn't need to cure completely, it just has to harden a bit to stay put. You can also shape the foam a bit with a gloved hand after about 20 mins. The foam is initially sticky but the outside becomes less tacky and more pliable.

How many cans did you get? It will probably take 2-3 for the size tank you're doing unless you're adding cork, tree fern or some other filler. And 2-3 tubes of silicone. I've learned I go through about one can of GS and one tube of silicone per 12 by18 inch section of tank. Don't forget to leave off about 2-3 inches from the bottom or the background will wick water up into the substrate( No Bueno). This will cause boggy conditions and cause substrate to decompose more quickly.

[chellabella]

I will be using other things besides the foam, one side of my tank will the cork bark sheet and the opposite side is being left just glass although I may change that to just rubbing on the silicone and coco on the glass so I can attach mushrooms up the side of the tank. I also am using a waterfall kit to create dripping down a piece of Mopani Wood. Do you guys usually foam that piece of wood into the back or let it just sit in the tank? As far as the tank floor I am using hydroballs on the bottom with the screen and then coco, is there anything else I need to know that people sometimes forget? I am really hoping to eventually make this mostly self containing.

Thanks for everyone's help. This weekend super busy so I was not able to start until last night but I have now applied the silicone to the back of the tank and will start foaming today. Wish me luck! I will post pictures soon

[chellabella]

I am using a waterfall kit to create dripping down a piece of Mopani Wood. Do you guys usually foam that piece of wood into the back or let it just sit in the tank? As far as the tank floor I am using hydroballs on the bottom with the screen and then coco, is there anything else I need to know that people sometimes forget?
I am really hoping to eventually make this mostly self containing.

[chellabella]

I think I am done foaming at this point, well unless you guys think I should foam in my piece of wood for the water feature? What do you think so far?

[deranged chipmunk]

that all depends on how you plan on adding it in with the waterfall. i always preach test, test, test, and when you are done testing, test some more...lol it's amazing how many people throw a tank together, then find out about technical errors after everything is done. i think i took several days of testing before i got the water feature in my mantella tank where i wanted it. and then i had some tweaking to do after all was said and done.

[DartEd]

If the piece of wood is stable and won't move, you can just place it. Mopani is very heavy so I doubt any dart could move it. I have a hard time lifting the piece I have. You can always silicone it in place if you decide you'd rather have it affixed.

[chellabella]

So I went out and bought the titebond III today to use instead of the silicone for applying the coco What is the best way to apply it? I know some say mixing it with water and coco to paint it on works well, if so what is the ratio on that? or what other methods do you guys use? Also how long do I have to wait to apply a second coat if needed? I really appreciate everyone's help. I love being able to come to this forum for help and feed back.

[deranged chipmunk]

i mix my coco with the glue until it is a nice, thick slurry. if i feel it is too thick, i cut it with more glue. i paint it on with acid brushes Oatey Acid Brushes (3-Pack)-3071020 at The Home Depot i find they are small enough to reach all the nooks and crannies and are inexpensive enough to be disosable. i wait 48 hours or more before applying more. on my final coat i sprinkle a "secret mix" on the wet stuff. you can dust it with coco, peat moss, whatever you like to achieve your desired effect. my mantella tank took 3 coats i believe. take your time, and the result will be well worth it. oh, and i let the final coat "cure" for 3 days or more.

[chellabella]

i mix my coco with the glue until it is a nice, thick slurry. if i feel it is too thick, i cut it with more glue. i paint it on with acid brushes Oatey Acid Brushes (3-Pack)-3071020 at The Home Depot i find they are small enough to reach all the nooks and crannies and are inexpensive enough to be disosable. i wait 48 hours or more before applying more. on my final coat i sprinkle a "secret mix" on the wet stuff. you can dust it with coco, peat moss, whatever you like to achieve your desired effect. my mantella tank took 3 coats i believe. take your time, and the result will be well worth it. oh, and i let the final coat "cure" for 3 days or more.

Here it so far! So excited.

next question.. Can want to silicone moss in random places.The moss I have you soak in water for 20-30 minutes before putting in terrarium, so my question is do I have to let it completely dry out before using silicone to put in the different places or will it stick being slightly damp? Also is it true I can silicone dried shelf mushrooms onto my tree trunk as long as I bake them first?

[deranged chipmunk]

that moss won't stick if it is damp. to get the effect you are looking for, i just tear up a piece of sheet moss into smaller pieces and either place them in spots, or i use an opened up paper clip to attach them. the moss will even grow and spread that way.

i'm not 100% sure about the mushrooms, but i would think they need to be dried first, then baked at a lower temp than you would bake wood at so they don't get crispy. that would be if you are collecting your own. you may be able to find already prepared ones online though.