Zoomed Pacman Food

[SamuraiJapanReptiles]

Zoo med stole our idea. and they made very similar Pacman Food.(The ads movie,too) without our license.

Please do not buy Zoo Med Pacman Frog Food as Samurai Japan Pacman Food.

Samurai Japan Pacman Food is used for 13 years with no problem.

Even if you had some problems with Zoo Med Pacman Frog Food, We can't take responsibility.

[Mentat]

Zoo med stole our idea. and they made very similar Pacman Food.(The ads movie,too) without our license.

Please do not buy Zoo Med Pacman Frog Food as Samurai Japan Pacman Food.

Samurai Japan Pacman Food is used for 13 years with no problem.

Even if you had some problems with Zoo Med Pacman Frog Food, We can't take responsibility.

Hello and welcome to FF. Thank you for warning; but I think will be misinterpreted in US. Zoo Med is a large company with many quality products for reptile and amphibian hobbyists. The original idea might be yours, but either the mixing/feeding process was not patented or the patent expired. Otherwise imagine you would be suing Zoo Med.

The actual food formula is what you own and imagine Zoo Med made and tested a different one that they have on sale now. No one here on their right mind would blame you, or hold you responsible, for any positive or negative experiences using Zoo Meds or any other company products. It's clear to us Zoo Med and Samurai Japan are unrelated.

Maybe ExoTerra and Fluker's will also join trend and make similar products available. Food variety is a key in keeping healthy frogs in my humble opinion.

I do hope you remain active in forum and discuss your frogs and products. There are many members in here who are your customers and fans. Cheers and welcome !

[SamuraiJapanReptiles]

Thank you for your comment.
I know some peoples think it to be a thing same as Samurai Pacman Food to see Zoo Med Pacman Frog Food and their Movie.
I don't want people to think that it is same product.
because........
I wanna say everything, but the lawyer said me you should not say about it at this time....

I have some good friends in Zoo Med and I didn't want to post such a thing.
Please only feel it why I post it.

[Lija]

I do hope you remain active in forum and discuss your frogs and products. There are many members in here who are your customers and fans. Cheers and welcome !

i couldn't agree more! welcome!

[never quit]

Hi, and thanks for your reply. While Zoo Med used the concept I doubt they used your formula. Which brings up a few questions.

• How is your product better than the Zoo Med food?
• You list D₃ as one of your ingredients. What objective evidence can you present that indicates your product contains the correct amount? Have you experienced MBD in your collection?
• You state: “Samurai Japan Pacman Food is used for 13 years with no problem.” Again, what objective evidence can you supply to support your statement?
• Do you have frogs that have been raised on your food for 13 years? The statement above suggests you have been using Pacman Food for 13 years on various frogs.

Being a statistician in a steel mill, I have become very wary of “this is good” or “this is better” comments.
That’s why I would like to see some pictures, data, necropsy analysis of dead specimens, etc.

“We need to base our opinions on facts and don’t base our facts on opinions.”


BTW…I’ve been using your product for almost a year, and I hope your reply with data will make me sleep better at night, knowing that after 13 years, your product does what you say. Until then, I’ll sleep with one eye open.

Thanks
Lloyd

[SamuraiJapanReptiles]

Thank you for your comment.

Its meaning is that we brought up much Pacman Frogs only with the diet for 13 years.(the numbers are more than 40,000 frogs)
We are using only this diet for our frogs.
There is several Pacman Frogs of 13 years old or older, but doesn't know it whether I may express it as data because there are few numbers....

About D3 is no problem. We are using a proper dose of calcium with D3 of the big company for the diet.

I can't write the further thing now as wrote on the post in front.
Sorry about that.

[GrifTheGreat]

Now I realize that Samurai and Nuance came up with the original idea, but we don't know Zoo Med's side of the story only yours and that is a small amount of information because your legal council has warned you against posting too much and possibly getting hit with a slander suit.
I don't want this thread to get out of hand so Iets not let it become so.

I use your product sparingly. I just don't feel it to be natural for a frog to eat a dough comprised of many good things and a few things that they would not willingly eat. Not saying its a bad product at all I just don't think it is 100% healthy for them to only eat the Pacman Food.

As for Zoo Med's version of the food. If it does not 100% match your recipe then it cannot be considered the same product otherwise anyone of us that makes their own compound of ground up food items made as a food for our frogs would be guilty of doing as Zoo Med has done even though ours would be for personal use and not public.

[SamuraiJapanReptiles]

They bought our Pacman Foods. the recipe is almost same. just they didn't add some stuff it only under 1g. It is under 1g of 113.4g.
99% same stuff.
There is the problem with other places.but it cannot say until a specific procedure is over.

[Mentat]

They bought our Pacman Foods. the recipe is almost same. just they didn't add some stuff it only under 1g. It is under 1g of 113.4g. 99% same stuff. There is the problem with other places.but it cannot say until a specific procedure is over.

You have the right to protect your intelectual property. I'm unsure how this situation came to be; but guess that after your lawyers have their day in court, maybe we will know. Say maybe, because many times, it's part of the final agreement that all parts keep silent on whole issue.

I'm curious on why Zoo Med developed their product. Did they had a deal with you that fell apart or something on that venue? It's foolish of them to copy a product that has patents or similar protecting it. Recent patents have a lifetime of 20 years and your product from what I read here is around 13, so it would be covered under the law. Can't find information on your patents so can't even tell if and how patent protects them. Can you discuss that?

[Lija]

on a topic though i don't really see the reason on discussing it, the only thing that is the same is a process - you have dry mix, you add water and you feed the frogs. it is not a rocket science, anyone can do it, you don't need to patent it. there are so many many different things on a market right now that are similar, I'm actually surprised why samurai food was the only one in that category for so long, i guess nobody really saw the market for that.
it is all about recipe. nobody will think that zoomed food is samurai food, it is like with repashy and Clarks, etc, different brands of cereal and many more.

I use samurai food quite a lot, and very very unhappy with a fact that shipping to states is 5$ and 3 times more to Canada, and there is no other way to get it other then to order. so of course if zoomed is a decent quality, will roll in a same nice ball, hopefully will remain it's shape in dry conditions longer and most importantly will be available where zoomed products are sold, I will be buying it rather then samurai. it is called market.
having said that even though there are tons of different brands of crested gecko diet i buy and feed exclusively repashy, because of it's recipe as well as data available.

[GrifTheGreat]

They bought our Pacman Foods. the recipe is almost same. just they didn't add some stuff it only under 1g. It is under 1g of 113.4g.
99% same stuff.
There is the problem with other places.but it cannot say until a specific procedure is over.

With what little information that you say you are allowed to disclose you are not putting up a very good argument that would persuade members here to not buy the Zoo Med Pacman Food. Zoo Med is highly respected in the US and their products are everywhere. To say that they made a careless mistake and stole the recipe for a patented product would be as Carlos said foolish and I don't believe that they would be that stupid to risk a large scale suite over something as small scale as a convienient frog food.

Your argument is not that solid with what little you have given in your defense. At least not to me.

Since this is not your thread and by posting your delema here you have hijacked the OP's thread I am going to recomend that you post anything else about this issue in the Testimonial Forum. That is where this falls

Thank you

Best regards
Jerrod

[SCF]

Hi, and thanks for your reply. While Zoo Med used the concept I doubt they used your formula. Which brings up a few questions.

• How is your product better than the Zoo Med food?
• You list D₃ as one of your ingredients. What objective evidence can you present that indicates your product contains the correct amount? Have you experienced MBD in your collection?
• You state: “Samurai Japan Pacman Food is used for 13 years with no problem.” Again, what objective evidence can you supply to support your statement?
• Do you have frogs that have been raised on your food for 13 years? The statement above suggests you have been using Pacman Food for 13 years on various frogs.

Being a statistician in a steel mill, I have become very wary of “this is good” or “this is better” comments.
That’s why I would like to see some pictures, data, necropsy analysis of dead specimens, etc.

“We need to base our opinions on facts and don’t base our facts on opinions.”


BTW…I’ve been using your product for almost a year, and I hope your reply with data will make me sleep better at night, knowing that after 13 years, your product does what you say. Until then, I’ll sleep with one eye open.

Thanks
Lloyd

Hey Lloyd, I've read some of your posts on another forum. I like your style.

[never quit]

Hey Lloyd, I've read some of your posts on another forum. I like your style.

Thanks!....I appreciate that. Not to beat this horse to death, but trying to determine how "healthy" Yusuke's pacman food is, will take a LOT of data....There are so many variables when dealing with animals. Then there's the variables that we don't even know about. As an example, how does the pacman food deal with the micronutrients that are found in the viscera of insects that are fed to the frogs?.....Intuitively, I would think feeding whole bodied insects and such to the frogs is the way to go....We all know there's countless generations of captive snakes that have ONLY been fed rodents....And from visiting the reptile expos, those captives seem to be doing quite well.
So, while the pacman food is Convenient, and until it can be established, it is comparable to whole bodied animals with regard to nutritional values, it should be PART of their diet, and not exclusively their diet. But that's just my opinion.

"There's nothing like a fact to screw up a theory"

Lloyd

[kueluck]

Just saw this thread and wonder if these products would be good for all amphibians that feed from tongs? i.e. my toads, WTF & AGTF.

[Mentat]

Just saw this thread and wonder if these products would be good for all amphibians that feed from tongs? i.e. my toad, Whites Tree Frog & AGTF.

I've tried it and my frogs would not eat it. Recommend get the smaller bottle and try it; appears some frogs do not respond to it even if tong trained.

[kueluck]

I just wonder what is more nutritional, this stuff or live bugs? I've got 2 WTF that will eat your hand if given the chance. Got some pretty fisty toads too.