Help! Suddenly sick!

[saranita]

Hello. I have been watching my moms pacman frog for a week, he has always been a good eater and nice and fat. Suddenly he is stretching out his back legs and twitching them and if I touch him he goes flat and stiff for a minute. I currently have him in a water dish as if I was treating toxic out syndrome and I might also give calcium to make sure that is covered as well. If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it!


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[DVirginiana]

Have you been conditioning the water for soaking and misting? Is he bloated more than normal (another sign of toxing out)? Has the frog been getting calcium regularly? I ask that because, if the frog has already been getting calcium adding extra can cause an overdose. Severe calcium deficiency could cause seizures, but usually there are other symptoms before that, so my guess is if he were already healthy that probably isn't your problem.

It's impossible to tell for sure what's going on without more info. Copy/paste the answers to these questions
http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

[saranita]

1. Size of enclosure cube 12x12x12 i think
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences one
3. Humidity 70-80
4. Temperature 80
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish conditioned
6. Materials used for substrate cocohusk
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv. just a water dish, everything cleaned with bleach, thoroughly rinsed and let air dry
8. Main food source butterworms
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) not sure (my moms frog)
10. Lighting lamp during the day
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure lamp
12. When is the last time he/she ate 3 days ago
13. Have you found poop lately no
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) attached
15. How old is the frog not sure
16. How long have you owned him/her a few months
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred captive
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats every 4 days, usually butterworms, try for crickets
19. How often the frog is handled rarely
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area medium
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) replace substrate monthly, spray daily


As I'm uploading this, he had another fit. I fear he might have just died. This happened out of NOWHERE!

[saranita]

He is still alive but that was very scary! PLEASE HELP MY MOTHER LOVES THIS FROG

[DVirginiana]

He is still alive but that was very scary! PLEASE HELP MY MOTHER LOVES THIS FROG

You should probably contact your mother if you can. She can tell you anything other than what you mentioned that has been going on with the frog, as well as his calcium/vitamin schedule, when he last used the bathroom, ect. Also, if she knows of a vet you could take him to that'd be best.

That substrate looks pretty dry... It should be moist enough to clump slightly when you grab it, but not quite swampy. Since pacs are burrowing frogs, the moisture in the soil is more important to them than the humidity in the air (not that that's not important as well).

Other than that, there's nothing you mentioned that should cause seizures. What brand specifically are you using to treat, and where is your water supply (sometimes well water can contain dangerous amounts of heavy metals)? You may want to consider a late-night run for SPRING water (not distilled) from WalMart. That is safe for them. I doubt there is anything wrong with your water, but since it's someone else's frog and having serious problems it's better to be safe.

Feel the frog's right side gently; if there are lumps there, he could be impacted. Sometimes this can cause toxins to build up in their system and lead to seizures (mine had this problem about 7-8 months ago). If this is the case, put 4-5 drops of honey in a warm dish of water and dissolve them. Soak him in this while rubbing his side GENTLY (massaging the vent may also work). This will help him go.
If you don't feel a lump, or if you've seen poo in the last week it probably isn't impaction though.

[GrifTheGreat]

We need some more info from your mother. What water condotioner are you using?

Butterworms are not a good staple food source. Use Night Crawlers from now on or crickets.

Feel the frog's right side. If you feel a hard lump then the frog is impacted. If so then here is what you need to do.

Prepare a luke warm bath preferably around 80° F. Get some Unflavored Pedialyte and for every 10 ounces of water add 1 ounce Unflavored Pedialyte Make sure it is dechlorinated water and only chest or chin deep. Add 4 drops of honey to the bath and dislove it. Soak the frog in this bath for 20 minutes or until the water cools. Once it cools prepare a second bath the same temp and depth, but use only dechlorinated water. Soak again until the water cools. Have luke warm dechlorinated water ready in the frog's water dish. Return the frog home and place it in the water dish.

Keep a close eye on the frog.

Now you say it is only fed every 4 days??? That is not enough. The frog should be fed every 2 days at most and calcium D3 powder dusted on its food every other feeding to every 2 feedings. Dust the food with a multivitmin powder once a week, but not on the same day as the calcium.

Get some more info for us and keep us posted.

[saranita]

Turns out she hasn't been dusting in calcium. With this frog it's hard to find poop in the substrate since he's small enough that it just looks like soil.
Looks like he might have a lump, I've looked for pedialyte before with no luck, will just honey be good?

[GrifTheGreat]

Turns out she hasn't been dusting in calcium. With this frog it's hard to find poop in the substrate since he's small enough that it just looks like soil.
Looks like he might have a lump, I've looked for pedialyte before with no luck, will just honey be good?

It will help some as it acts like a natural laxative.

Get some liquid calcium and add some to the bath. Bath the frog daily in this solution. I believe Lija can help you find a brand of electrolyte replacement similar to Pedialyte. I will PM her this thread.

[sarahanita]

is that all pedialyte is? i have an electrolyte liquid stuff for reptiles, should i use that? he is currently in a bath of honey water but he had a fit and is just kind of layin there eyes closed half dead like he did last night :S

[GrifTheGreat]

is that all pedialyte is? i have an electrolyte liquid stuff for reptiles, should i use that? he is currently in a bath of honey water but he had a fit and is just kind of layin there eyes closed half dead like he did last night :S

This is not good. He may be suffering from MBD( Metabolic Bone Disease) and Tetany. Seizures and spasms are symptoms. He is also underfed and lacking nutritionally. You will also need to find some Fluker's Repta Boost.

Post a pick of the Reptile Electrolyte Replacement.

[sarahanita]

I have retiboost and this is the electrolyte Exo Terra : Electrolyte / Electrolyte & Vitamin D3 Supplement

[GrifTheGreat]

I have retiboost and this is the electrolyte Exo Terra : Electrolyte / Electrolyte & Vitamin D3 Supplement

It should be ok to add a little of that to the water.

[saranita]

if he is just siting there half dead what should i do? he wont poop if hes just there.
what do you think I should make a bath out of for him?

[GrifTheGreat]

if he is just siting there half dead what should i do? he wont poop if hes just there.
what do you think I should make a bath out of for him?

What do you mean? You can soak him in a bowl outside his enclosure or just mix the solution outside hus enclosure and pour in his water dish. Then place him in the dish. May be less stressful for him.

Now none of this is your fault. You mother did not provide the necessary diet and supplementation for the frog and eventually his system was bound to crash. It just happened to be under your watch that it crashed.

[saranita]

ill put him in the bowl i had him in before but what should i put in the water? the elctrolyte, honey and reptiboost? or a different mix?

[GrifTheGreat]

ill put him in the bowl i had him in before but what should i put in the water? the elctrolyte, honey and reptiboost? or a different mix?

Use the electrolyte and honey first. Worry about the Repta Boost later. When the time comes for the Repta Boost it will need to be force fed to him.

[saranita]

ok thanks for being so helpful. If I soak him and he doesnt wake up what should i do?

[GrifTheGreat]

ok thanks for being so helpful. If I soak him and he doesnt wake up what should i do?

Is he still breathing?

[saranita]

i cant tell :S he did the same thing last night as was fine by morning but this time he seems really out of it...

[GrifTheGreat]

i cant tell :S he did the same thing last night as was fine by morning but this time he seems really out of it...

You may have to gently pick him up. Check the throat for breathing.