Just joined and have a problem

[Reticguy]

How's it going guys? I've been a creeper on this forum just reading your posts, but never joined because I am a complete newbie to amphibians. I am a huge reticulated python guy, but I've always loved pacman frogs cuz they're just so fat and lazy and AWESOME!!

So here's my problem. My friend got me a little baby in January at the show in Pamona, not sure what kind it was, but it's been healthy and eating well until today. When I woke up this morning, it was fine. Just sitting there as usual not doing anything, just whipping it's face with it's tiny little arm. I then left my room to make breakfast, about 20 minutes, but when I came back, it looked like he was popped cuz he just released all of the water from his body and was nothing but skin and bones and most definitely dead. What happened to my frog? All I did was look at him! I didn't spray him down or feed him or anything! Is this a common thing in pacman's? He was in a small critter keeper with ecoearth bedding. He was probably only about 1 1/2"-2" snout to vent. I didn't have a heat source for him, but the room stays around 80 degrees. I am just very curious to what could have caused this because I would like to get another one, but I don't want something like this to happen to the next one if it was in fact something I did. Thanks in advance guys.

[Locascio]

He must have been sick/weak what was he eating? and why didnt you have a heat source? how do you realy know the room is a contince 80degrees? you really should read the pacman care sheet so that you dont make the same mistakes agean. was the water treated? these are all things people should know befor getting a frog. i will help you with any thing you need to know

[Reticguy]

He must have been sick/weak what was he eating? and why didnt you have a heat source? how do you realy know the room is a contince 80degrees? you really should read the pacman care sheet so that you dont make the same mistakes agean. was the water treated? these are all things people should know befor getting a frog. i will help you with any thing you need to know

The room is the same room I keep my pythons in so I have a heat fan in there to keep the room at a constant 80 degrees during the day and I drop it to 75 at night. I also have one of those zoo med heat gun things that you point at a spot and it gives you the exact temp of that area. I do treat the water with stress coat because I always have that on hand for doing water changes on my aquarium. I have read the pacman frog caresheets, but when I was younger, I had a pacman frog for 3 years and since I was just a kid, I definitely neglected it so since I'm older, I figured I could keep it longer since I'm more responsible now and understand that these are lives that depend on me. I also fed it 1 or 2 large crickets every other day, some days it doesn't want to eat 2, and I dust the crickets with reptomin every other feeding.Also, I didn't have a heat source cuz it's such a small critter keeper, I was worried that it would dry it out too fast because that's happened to me before.

[GrifTheGreat]

The room is the same room I keep my pythons in so I have a heat fan in there to keep the room at a constant 80 degrees during the day and I drop it to 75 at night. I also have one of those zoo med heat gun things that you point at a spot and it gives you the exact temp of that area. I do treat the water with stress coat because I always have that on hand for doing water changes on my aquarium. I have read the pacman frog caresheets, but when I was younger, I had a pacman frog for 3 years and since I was just a kid, I definitely neglected it so since I'm older, I figured I could keep it longer since I'm more responsible now and understand that these are lives that depend on me. I also fed it 1 or 2 large crickets every other day, some days it doesn't want to eat 2, and I dust the crickets with reptomin every other feeding.Also, I didn't have a heat source cuz it's such a small critter keeper, I was worried that it would dry it out too fast because that's happened to me before.

Answer these questions and repost the answers here. http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

[Reticguy]

1. small critter keeper
2. 1
3. 85% humidity
4. ~80 degrees during the day, ~75 at night
5. tap water treated with stress coay
6. ecoearth coco fiber
7. none
8. crickets
9. reptomin every other feeding
10. natural lighting
11. single room heat fan
12. yesterday
13. a few days ago
14. took this the other day


this is the only one I have of his enclosure taken on the day I got him. He was only like the size of a quarter for size reference.
15. only had him for 4 months so I'm guessing just a few months older than that
16. 4 months
17. I don't know if it's WC or CB since my friend got him for me
18. crickets every other day
19. rarely handled
20. low traffic area
21. spot cleaned every week, misted twice a week and replace substrate once a month

[DVirginiana]

How were you keeping your humidity at 85% with only misting twice a week? I figure you've got some other system for humidity since you keep retics, but I gotta ask anyway :P

I really don't know of anything that you did that could've caused that. Could it've been some sort of neurological problem? If he had a sudden seizure that could've caused him to void his bladder and get that skinny look. That's kind of a stretch but it's the only thing I can think of that could cause that so suddenly...

[Mentat]

...My friend got me a little baby in January at the show in Pamona, not sure what kind it was, but it's been healthy and eating well until today. When I woke up this morning, it was fine. Just sitting there as usual not doing anything, just whipping it's face with it's tiny little arm. I then left my room to make breakfast, about 20 minutes, but when I came back, it looked like he was popped cuz he just released all of the water from his body and was nothing but skin and bones and most definitely dead. What happened to my frog?...He was probably only about 1 1/2"-2" snout to vent....

Welcome to FF and sorry for your frog death ! Two things that intrigue me here is the fact that frog was eating (big enough to skip meal here and there) which rules out a chronic problem. Second is the way it was found dead. The way you kept yours is how pet shops in my area keep their babies so it's a normal practice within boundaries of a controlled reptile room.

Right now the only thing would like to know is: did frog had a water dish for soaking (changed daily with de-chlorinated water and level to frog's chin). Also, tell me more about the conditioner with stress coat you were using (brand and product name. Thank you !

[Reticguy]

How were you keeping your humidity at 85% with only misting twice a week? I figure you've got some other system for humidity since you keep retics, but I gotta ask anyway :P

I really don't know of anything that you did that could've caused that. Could it've been some sort of neurological problem? If he had a sudden seizure that could've caused him to void his bladder and get that skinny look. That's kind of a stretch but it's the only thing I can think of that could cause that so suddenly...

I don't know how it stayed at 85%. I just have one of those humidity sensors with a probe and I check it every day. I do a pretty heavy mist when I do it so that could be why.

[Reticguy]

Welcome to FF and sorry for your frog death ! Two things that intrigue me here is the fact that frog was eating (big enough to skip meal here and there) which rules out a chronic problem. Second is the way it was found dead. The way you kept yours is how pet shops in my area keep their babies so it's a normal practice within boundaries of a controlled reptile room.

Right now the only thing would like to know is: did frog had a water dish for soaking (changed daily with de-chlorinated water and level to frog's chin). Also, tell me more about the conditioner with stress coat you were using (brand and product name. Thank you !

No. I did not have a water dish in there, but it didn't appear to have any problems when he shed. He would just wipe it off himself and I think he eats it after. Not sure because I never find it after he's done. For the conditioner, its made by API and called Stress Coat +. Actually, I just realized it says that it contains aloe vera. Could that have been a cause?

[DeeDub]

Hey Reticguy, sorry to hear you lost one. I had one with the exact symptoms and ended with the same result. I am not up on my disease terminology or exactly how bacteria grows/spreads, but one thing I noticed, and have seen since is if the substrate gets oversaturated my frogs immediately show signs of bacterial infections/fungal infection/toxing out on something (unnaturally bloated up, hip bones showing, skin looks really thin, tacky skin, retained sheds, some of them lose appetite, but not all.)

I haven't lost any other frogs, but I know it is the oversaturation. It may be do to the ability of bacteria to reproduce and easily spread in the 'standing' water in the bottom of the tank/substrate. I started making my substrate deeper and changing more often if it becomes too saturated. Ventilation is also important.

[Lija]

Hi Recticguy! welcome to the frog forum, i wish though it would be under different situation. so sorry for your loss. all you did sounds good, except humidity, that might cause problems. I'm stressing out a word "might", because unless we know different it is all guesses.

have you ever noticed anything sticky around his mouth or nose? have you noticed what exactly was he whipping off his mouth that morning? did he ever looked weird to you, like coughing or sneezing? have you actually saw him eating lately? was he burrowing deep with just eyes sticking out or was just sitting there? have you noticed any change of his behavior comparing to what it was like 3 month ago? you said you noticed him poop - how the poop looked like?

[Reticguy]

Hey Reticguy, sorry to hear you lost one. I had one with the exact symptoms and ended with the same result. I am not up on my disease terminology or exactly how bacteria grows/spreads, but one thing I noticed, and have seen since is if the substrate gets oversaturated my frogs immediately show signs of bacterial infections/fungal infection/toxing out on something (unnaturally bloated up, hip bones showing, skin looks really thin, tacky skin, retained sheds, some of them lose appetite, but not all.)

I haven't lost any other frogs, but I know it is the oversaturation. It may be do to the ability of bacteria to reproduce and easily spread in the 'standing' water in the bottom of the tank/substrate. I started making my substrate deeper and changing more often if it becomes too saturated. Ventilation is also important.

Actually, he did look like he absorbed a lot of water and his skin appeared thin. I didn't think anything of it though cuz if seen a bunch before that looked like that.

[Reticguy]

Hi Recticguy! welcome to the frog forum, i wish though it would be under different situation. so sorry for your loss. all you did sounds good, except humidity, that might cause problems. I'm stressing out a word "might", because unless we know different it is all guesses.

have you ever noticed anything sticky around his mouth or nose? have you noticed what exactly was he whipping off his mouth that morning? did he ever looked weird to you, like coughing or sneezing? have you actually saw him eating lately? was he burrowing deep with just eyes sticking out or was just sitting there? have you noticed any change of his behavior comparing to what it was like 3 month ago? you said you noticed him poop - how the poop looked like?

I didnt notice anything sticky around his mouth or nose. I didn't see exactly what he was wiping. I though it was just his way of cleaning himself like what tree frogs do. I did see him eat and it was completely normal. Grabbed the cricket then kept wiping his face cuz half of it was hanging out of his mouth and every time he swallowed, his eyes closed. Behavior wise the only thing I noticed that changed was that instead of eating the 2nd cricket immediately, it would take him like an hour to finally go after it. The poo just looked like a normal poo I think, just a tiny log.

[Lija]

another question, you said you dusted crickets with reptomin, i googled it and the only thing that came back is turtle floating food. would you please specify what exactly you used and how often. any calcium/vit d3 supplements?

[SCF]

Sounds like Lija and DW hit it on the head. Constantly shedding (what its doing when you see it wiping its mouth) due to over accumulation of water (which most likely became stagnant) and bacterial infection leading to it's untimely death.

[Reticguy]

another question, you said you dusted crickets with reptomin, i googled it and the only thing that came back is turtle floating food. would you please specify what exactly you used and how often. any calcium/vit d3 supplements?

Sorry. I meant reptovite.
I used it every other feeding so every 4 days.

[Lija]

reptovite is a vitamin supplement, so to SCF said I'd add possible hypervitaminosis and Ca deficiency or possibly everything happened at the same time- too much vitamins, not enough ca, too much water and bacterial infection.

going forward, make sure your humidity stays at 70-80 (no more then 80), substrate is not drippy and mud like, you supplement food every second feeding with Ca/vit D3 and once a week with multivitamins ( reptovite will sure do). as well keep in mind babies are to be fed every day do that and you will be just fine!

by the way I would LOVE to see your pythons, we can't have them in Canada

[Reticguy]

Sounds like Lija and DW hit it on the head. Constantly shedding (what its doing when you see it wiping its mouth) due to over accumulation of water (which most likely became stagnant) and bacterial infection leading to it's untimely death.

It didn't do that all the time. Last time I saw him do that was a few weeks ago. That's just what it was doing when I looked at it in the morning.

It does sound like that may be what caused it though. I didn't mist very often but when I did, it was a pretty heavy misting

[Reticguy]

reptovite is a vitamin supplement, so to SCF said I'd add possible hypervitaminosis and Ca deficiency or possibly everything happened at the same time- too much vitamins, not enough ca, too much water and bacterial infection.

going forward, make sure your humidity stays at 70-80 (no more then 80), substrate is not drippy and mud like, you supplement food every second feeding with Ca/vit D3 and once a week with multivitamins ( reptovite will sure do). as well keep in mind babies are to be fed every day do that and you will be just fine!

by the way I would LOVE to see your pythons, we can't have them in Canada

Ok. So I will make sure to get a calcium supplement next time I get another pacman. I would really like one of those blue ones but they seem pretty pricey. What's a good beginner pacman? I'm not sure what kind the one that died was.

That's sucks you can't keep retics in Canada. Is it just retics or is it all large snakes?

Here's my sunfire. He's approximately 6 years old and 11ft long. Sorry. I don't have a full body shot of him.


This is my lavender albino tiger. I got her last October so she's just a baby.


And this is my male platinum I got in January this year. Also just a baby.


Sorry. I'm not at my computer and these were the best pics I had on my phone.

[Lija]

I would really like one of those blue ones but they seem pretty pricey. What's a good beginner pacman?

any really, may be ornate, they are always hungry lol check with Mike ( mikesfrogs) or Ivory ( Ivoryreptiles) when you're ready for another one. the babies those two breed are crazy! you will get better prices and healthier less stress out baby directly from a breeder.

your platinum just killed me, (collecting myself from the floor right now), holy.... WOW! never seen anything like it! totally insane!
we can keep retics here, but need a zoo permit I think I could qualify lol they are freaking out of big snakes roaming free i guess thus ban.