A question regarding the behaviour of Xenopus Laevis

[Astyanax]

Hello there, this is my first of possibly many posts on this forum,

Before I get into any detail, here are the parameters and details of my tank:

-Ammonia is 0, Nitrites are +0.3/ppm (at the moment), Nitrates are at a safe level
-Tank is Pentametical 60L (14us G)
-Substrate is small-large gravel from a petshop
-Two filters, on lowest setting; one is a stingray, the other is a fluvial. I will remove the stingray once cycling has stopped.
-Nitrogen Cycle is almost complete, Ammonia is being converted into Nitrites and they are lowering and turning slowly into Nitrates
-Plants are live, Elodea Canadiensis
-Lots of hiding places (not sharp, of course)
-Temperature is constantly 20'c
-Fed frozen bloodworms and very small Repotmin pellets
-Water changes every week, 20%

For two weeks, I've had them in with three goldfish, who were finally put into my pond so now they're on their own in the tank.

Now, info about my frogs:


Two African Clawed Frogs (Xenopus Laevis), anywhere from two weeks to a month old, they're about 1inch in size. Sex is unknown at this moment in time.

Now, I think that is all the information needed for the following question:

Is it normal for them to 'hover' near the top of the tank?

I've been studying them for a few hours a day, when I first got them, they were always hiding and only came out at night and when I fed them (as expected). But ever since I've removed my fish they seem a lot more active and playful, but I've also noticed is that they're always near the top of the water instead of being at the bottom, why is this?

Thanks for any help.

[mpmistr]

-Ammonia is 0, Nitrites are +0.3/ppm (at the moment), Nitrates are at a safe level

Toxic..

-Tank is Pentametical 60L (14us G)

Fine for a single frog.

-Substrate is small-large gravel from a petshop

Run the risk of the frog ingesting and becoming impacted by this substrate.

-Two filters, on lowest setting; one is a stingray, the other is a fluvial. I will remove the stingray once cycling has stopped.

Cycling doesn't stop really, that's the point of the cycle. Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate and then controlled via partial water changes.

-Nitrogen Cycle is almost complete, Ammonia is being converted into Nitrites and they are lowering and turning slowly into Nitrates

Correct, though the cycling should have been complete before adding livestock.

-Plants are live, Elodea Canadiensis
-Lots of hiding places (not sharp, of course)
-Temperature is constantly 20'c

Good.

-Fed frozen bloodworms and very small Repotmin pellets
-Water changes every week, 20%

This is fine, though I'd feed more reptomin and offer the bloodworms more as a treat if at all (known to cause bloating disease).

For two weeks, I've had them in with three goldfish, who were finally put into my pond so now they're on their own in the tank.

The goldfish had no business being in this tank; way too small for all these species. So good move there.

Now, info about my frogs:

Two African Clawed Frogs (Xenopus Laevis), anywhere from two weeks to a month old, they're about 1inch in size. Sex is unknown at this moment in time.

No way to know for quite some time. Two adult frogs will outgrow this system.

Now, I think that is all the information needed for the following question:

Is it normal for them to 'hover' near the top of the tank?

Yes but not all the time. They do enjoy to bask, rest at the water surface.

I've been studying them for a few hours a day, when I first got them, they were always hiding and only came out at night and when I fed them (as expected). But ever since I've removed my fish they seem a lot more active and playful, but I've also noticed is that they're always near the top of the water instead of being at the bottom, why is this?

Xenopus are nocturnal by nature, though in captivity do become active during all hours of the day. My frogs seem to rest at night. Being small juveniles housed with fish can be scary, they could see them as potential predators.. no scary fish = a better feeling of security for the frogs. Xenopus are predators but also a prey species, they are usually quite aware of predators or what they conceive to be predators.

If I had to run the numbers on how my frogs act I would say they spend 80% of the time on the bottom and 20% on the top. If you notice your frogs having trouble swimming or any other unusual behavior I would attribute it to the fact the tank is not fully cycled. I would dose with Prime and do frequent water changes in the future try to do a fishless (or in this case, frogless) cycle, you can google this for more info.

Thanks for any help.

Hope this helps.

[Astyanax]

Toxic.. Yes, toxic, but I had no other choice, as I'll explain later.



Fine for a single frog. I will be getting a better tank, when I have enough money. They're are too small to need an upgrade



Run the risk of the frog ingesting and becoming impacted by this substrate. I am aware of this, I was thinking of getting bigger river pebbles when I upgrade the tank



Cycling doesn't stop really, that's the point of the cycle. Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate and then controlled via partial water changes. No comment



Correct, though the cycling should have been complete before adding livestock. Well some people have no other option do they? I had to take my goldfish of my mother (who kept three goldfish in a 10L bare plastic tank) and the two frogs from a friend who wanted to kill them. I don't know about you but I chose to save them, rather than kill them.



Good.



This is fine, though I'd feed more reptomin and offer the bloodworms more as a treat if at all (known to cause bloating disease. I'm going to wait until they are older until Repotmin becomes its staple diet.



The goldfish had no business being in this tank; way too small for all these species. So good move there. I know, but I explained this earlier.



No way to know for quite some time. Two adult frogs will outgrow this system. Yes, I am aware of this.



Yes but not all the time. They do enjoy to bask, rest at the water surface. Yes, this is why I was worrying. Because the fish have only recently been moved out, I haven't been able to properly analyse their 'new' activity. I just wanted to make sure this was normal.



Xenopus are nocturnal by nature, though in captivity do become active during all hours of the day. My frogs seem to rest at night. Being small juveniles housed with fish can be scary, they could see them as potential predators.. no scary fish = a better feeling of security for the frogs. Xenopus are predators but also a prey species, they are usually quite aware of predators or what they conceive to be predators.

If I had to run the numbers on how my frogs act I would say they spend 80% of the time on the bottom and 20% on the top. If you notice your frogs having trouble swimming or any other unusual behavior I would attribute it to the fact the tank is not fully cycled. I would dose with Prime and do frequent water changes in the future try to do a fishless (or in this case, frogless) cycle, you can google this for more info.



Hope this helps.

Yes, it did somewhat help, but I noticed a certain 'aggressive' tone with your answer. I've read extensively on the topic, but what I would like to do differs from the current reality. Sure, a fishless cycle sounds great but that wasn't really an option.

[MatthewM1]

They breath air from the surface so if they feel comfortable they like to bask up there and just kinda relax as apposed to having to hold their breath when submursed

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[Astyanax]

They breath air from the surface so if they feel comfortable they like to bask up there and just kinda relax as apposed to having to hold their breath when submursed

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

This makes sense, now that the fish have gone, they're move active and play a lot more. They're not hiding in the Elodea any more but basking near the top of the tank. I was just wondering if this was normal behaviour.

[Geoff]

They're not hiding in the Elodea any more but basking near the top of the tank. I was just wondering if this was normal behaviour.

In their natural habitat these frogs feed on terrestrial prey, which means they do spend time at the water surface. The second page of this article illustrates their behaviour: http://john.measey.com/pdf/Measey_feed.pdf

For what it's worth, a few of Michael's assertions above are based on personal opinion, which I've no doubt he sincerely believes but with which I disagree, particularly on stocking level, diet and substrate. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[mpmistr]

Not being aggressive in my tone, just trying to educate. Many of these frogs are lost because they are added to the system before it is completely cycled. It is extremely stressful to the animal, and if you do a forum search you will see that many do not survive.

I don't know what it feels like for these animals to be exposed to ammonia/nitrite but I would wager it feels much like being rolled around in fiberglass, so yes I really advocate cycling before adding live animals to aquatic systems.

Just trying to be straightforward with you, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[Astyanax]

Not being aggressive in my tone, just trying to educate. Many of these frogs are lost because they are added to the system before it is completely cycled. It is extremely stressful to the animal, and if you do a forum search you will see that many do not survive.

I don't know what it feels like for these animals to be exposed to ammonia/nitrite but I would wager it feels much like being rolled around in fiberglass, so yes I really advocate cycling before adding live animals to aquatic systems.

Just trying to be straightforward with you, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

I appreciate the help, especially if you have experience with ACF. I find it quite offensive that you judge prematurely and try to 'educate' me. I've spent so many hours studying and researching ACF and frog keeping in general that it's not nice to read somebody think that you're totally ignorant on the topic.

My frogs look healthy and are acting 'normally'. Yes, I cannot see how the nitrites are effecting them on a molecular scale but neither can you, as you said.

I find it natural to advocate fishless cycling, but in my reply to you I explained that this was impossible and it was either have the fish put down or put into my care.

The only thing I haven't looked into is Xenopus Laevis in academia, I think College/University level of study is a bit too much for me a the moment, as I am quite occupied with my own degree. Nonetheless, I can say that I am quite comfortable with the basics and the chemistry of it all. Theoretically, I'm at a stable point, but as with everything, when you put the theory into practise you come across problems/questions. Hence this topic.

To some extent, it is my fault. I should have extended the introduction to the thread with more details, but I didn't want that to derail the topic. Funny, because that is what is happening right now. That is the problem with aquaria related forums, you post a question and if you leave the tiniest detail, the majority of comments will be 'moaning' about the errors in your tank, not that this is bad.

~

I do appreciate the reply, truly. But to what extent you're doing things correct is quite problematic. For a newcomer, with no experience, it's hard to find a stable opinion on an existing question. You say X but another person says Y, and both have experience with the subject.


Anyhow, I'll read the article and I'll keep observing my frogs, and see how it goes. I don't want my frogs to die either, naturally.

[mpmistr]

Simply pointing out that having any measurable amount of nitrite in your tank is toxic to your frogs. Nitrite is actually more toxic than ammonia and can cause you real problems. It's not a tiny detail to have a system that is not cycled with clawed frogs in it, they are very sensitive to nitrite and it can kill them, it would be irresponsible for me to tell you otherwise. If you find this offensive then so be it.

I would do water changes and treat the water with Prime since it detoxifies ammonia and even nitrite, I've had good luck with that product.